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Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

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Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#321

Post by mrep »

tylerl wrote: post #320

>> Rank and file programmers at the top tier tech companies now make $300 to $400 thousand per year. That is absurdly false. To be generous, let's pretend he's only talking about FAANG programmers, rather than startups. According to Glassdoor, average compensation for "Software Engineer" positions: Facebook: 121K Base + 15K Addl = 136K Apple: 122K Base + 10K Addl = 132K Amazon: 103K Base + 20K Addl = 123K Netflix: 12…

You are absurdly ignorant. Glassdoor salaries are weighted down by old data which makes them useless. I started out of college 3 years ago at 120k total comp and just switched to a 210k total comp job with a measly 2.5 years of experience and that offer was not even from one of the big 5 tech companies.

Edit: I'll add that all the senior engineers (lifetime position for most people) that I have worked with are indeed making 300,000+ a year.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#322

Post by trevor-e »

tylerl wrote: post #320

>> Rank and file programmers at the top tier tech companies now make $300 to $400 thousand per year. That is absurdly false. To be generous, let's pretend he's only talking about FAANG programmers, rather than startups. According to Glassdoor, average compensation for "Software Engineer" positions: Facebook: 121K Base + 15K Addl = 136K Apple: 122K Base + 10K Addl = 132K Amazon: 103K Base + 20K Addl = 123K Netflix: 12…

I think those Glassdoor numbers are way off based on all the anonymous surveys and salary sharing threads I've seen. For example, 5+ years of experience will get you 200k+ total comp per year at all of those companies, with many offers in the 3-400 range.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#323

Post by ummonk »

tylerl wrote: post #320

>> Rank and file programmers at the top tier tech companies now make $300 to $400 thousand per year. That is absurdly false. To be generous, let's pretend he's only talking about FAANG programmers, rather than startups. According to Glassdoor, average compensation for "Software Engineer" positions: Facebook: 121K Base + 15K Addl = 136K Apple: 122K Base + 10K Addl = 132K Amazon: 103K Base + 20K Addl = 123K Netflix: 12…

Glassdoor is incredibly outdated and inaccurate. Levels.fyi has much more accurate data. It is still true that only experienced engineers at a handful of top companies and decacorns tend to earn these high levels of compensation, but Glassdoor makes it seem rarer than it is.

The Netflix data for example is just flat out wrong. It only hires experienced engineers, and pays all cash salaries in excess of 300k to all of them.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#324

Post by [deleted] »

tylerl wrote: post #320

>> Rank and file programmers at the top tier tech companies now make $300 to $400 thousand per year. That is absurdly false. To be generous, let's pretend he's only talking about FAANG programmers, rather than startups. According to Glassdoor, average compensation for "Software Engineer" positions: Facebook: 121K Base + 15K Addl = 136K Apple: 122K Base + 10K Addl = 132K Amazon: 103K Base + 20K Addl = 123K Netflix: 12…

[deleted]

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#325

Post by icedchai »

dmd wrote: post #277
hopler wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games in 1985 shipped with bugs baked in that people were just stuck with. Civilization had a broken Gandhi, and still shipped 4 different bugfix versions.

Neither Civilization nor Windows existed in 1985.

Take a guess when Windows 1.0 was released.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#326

Post by licebmi__at__ »

Will the demand of software in the economy go down? Unlikely.

Could the economy itself go down? I'm betting it will.

My take is that we currently have bullshit economy, and that the software industry is a big part of that bullshit economy, almost funded entirely by it.

Of course there's a lot of essential software, but if the bubble of bullshit software pops, then the industry as a whole will suffer a lot.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#327

Post by dmd »

icedchai wrote: post #325
dmd wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Civilization nor Windows existed in 1985.

Take a guess when Windows 1.0 was released.

> "software in 1985 was more "complete" than today. Even CD roms shipped with magazines had to support more windows variations than "good software"

There was one variation of Windows in 1985. (And I remember installing it!)

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#328

Post by chrisco255 »

ams6110 wrote: post #167
nostrademons wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB didn't become a public company through innovations in fundamental distributed database technology or even through good engineering. They became a public company because once Javascript became adequate for building client software, there was a strong incentive to build MVPs using the same data structures from client to server to DB, and once you build an MVP that gets adoption there's a strong incentive not to…

> software that solves the problem (poorly) now is better than software that doesn't exist. That has always been the case and is about as good a one-line summary of the software industry as I can think of.

Done is better than good!

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#329

Post by fizwhiz »

tylerl wrote: post #320

>> Rank and file programmers at the top tier tech companies now make $300 to $400 thousand per year. That is absurdly false. To be generous, let's pretend he's only talking about FAANG programmers, rather than startups. According to Glassdoor, average compensation for "Software Engineer" positions: Facebook: 121K Base + 15K Addl = 136K Apple: 122K Base + 10K Addl = 132K Amazon: 103K Base + 20K Addl = 123K Netflix: 12…

You want it to be one way... but it's the other way.

-Marlo, from The Wire

As other commenter's have pointed out, the data you're citing is completely wrong and/or woefully out of date. There's always 4 parts of compensation that you need to look at:

-Base

-Target bonus (depending on your level could be 15%-20%+)

-Initial stock grant

-Refresher stock grant (offered each year to protect you from a cliff)

An incoming SWE with 1yr experience at Google would scoff at a total compensation of $125k (this would normally be the bare minimum base salary). Same goes for Facebook. And while Netflix isn't known to hire junior engineers, it is well known in the bay area that they usually pay top of market rates fully in cash; this routinely exceeds $300k and much more so for seasoned engineers.

Re: Are We in the Middle of a Programming Bubble?

#330

Post by jki275 »

dlp211 wrote: post #306
rch wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe some states will let you simply take the bar exam and start practicing. Of course, one would probably get started by clerking or working into a paralegal position, both of which would require independent study and coursework. Sometimes people just need a cheap lawyer to take a look at a simple will or divorce papers, etc.

I believe Washington is the only state that allows this anymore. Even then, you still need to be an understudy before you are allowed to take the Bar in Washington.

California, Virginia, Vermont, and Washington all seem to allow it. There are caveats, of course.
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