The design goal for butterfly switch wasn't enhancing user experience. It was designed to make MacBook Pro thinner.
Sacrificing usability for fashion is a design failure.
Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
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Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#22The design goal for butterfly switch wasn't enhancing user experience. It was designed to make MacBook Pro thinner.
Not disagreeing, but: Dear Apple, enough with the thinner! I don't need or want my iPhone to be any thinner, I'd rather it not bend and I'd rather have a headphone jack. I don't need or want my MacBook to be any thinner than ~2015 MBPs; I care about weight, about a decent keyboard, and about convenient ports. I don't care about it being 5mm thicker or thinner.
I don't really care about the headphone jack, but I wish they'd just make the phone thicker to accommodate the camera bump. In that extra volume, just fill it with a larger battery.
With their laptops, I enjoy the form factor, but it's really Intel's fault for not delivering the low TDP, low wattage CPUs they promised years ago. The old MBP form factor feels too thick but the battery life of the new ones is disappointing. I actually don't mind the butterfly switch keyboard and like the lower travel distance. The old keyboards felt too mushy.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not disagreeing, but: Dear Apple, enough with the thinner! I don't need or want my iPhone to be any thinner, I'd rather it not bend and I'd rather have a headphone jack. I don't need or want my MacBook to be any thinner than ~2015 MBPs; I care about weight, about a decent keyboard, and about convenient ports. I don't care about it being 5mm thicker or thinner.
I’ve had a hypothesis that the real reason phones keep being unnecessarily thin with not-quite-adequate batteries is that a larger, heavier phone hits the ground harder and breaks. I wonder how true that could be. It matters less with laptops, but still.
iphone 3G had a plastic back and a metal border around the screen, I never managed to break the screen with all the falls onto the pavement. iPhones 8/X have glass(!) backs. Broken phones sell more phones, making a sturdier phone is therefore counterproductive.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#24I really haven't had much issue with the keyboard either. Sometimes they keys go a bit rough but a can of air usually fixes it.
Still not a fan of it though, the keys are just too loud for how little travel there is.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#25I have a stack of new MBP due to being a freelance consultant and my clients having a high degree of security needs. I use them 90% of the time with the lid closed attached to external keyboard/monitor. (I am a fan of the "Anker USB C Hub, 5-in-1 Premium USB C Adapter with Ethernet Port")
After a year with this configuration one of the keyboards has developed a sticky left shift key. When I jump between the MBP and a 2015 Air, I breathe a sigh of relief for the Air's keyboard. The air, obviously older, does a lot of travel, has no key issues.
I have additional issues with using the MBP keyboard. I always feel like I am burning my finger tips off due to how hot the system always seems to run, especially up top near the touch bar. The caps lock key is every so slightly too far right, so I will regularly hit it instead of the A key.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#26I've been using my 15" 2017 MBP since it was released (so 1.5 years) with absolutely zero keyboard issues. And honestly, I like this keyboard much more than the previous generation. (I had a 15" Early 2013 MBP until I got my current one.) I'm not saying that my lack of issues negates the presence of issues for other people by any means, and I think that Apple's "repair" policy of "pay us hundreds of dollars to replac…
I did use the new 2017 MBP for few months as my trusty, old type 2016 MBPr developed keyboard/trackpad connector issue after 2 years of constant use. The company I work for had to pay for changing the upper part of MBPr just because of that connector issue which rendered keyboard and trackpad completely broken.
After I got back to the old type keyboard, it feels a lot more mushy, has longer traveling distances, feels bulkier but is quieter.
The 2017 MBP has issues with dust and bread crumbs but otherwise it felt better after getting used to it and getting back to the old felt awkward. A little bit same the same with the Magic Touchbar and getting back to normal function key row.
Also the old MBPr feels heavy and awkward (but more robust built) compared to the new one, which is a lot more easier to carry aroung and pick up from a bag, but the robustness doesn't protect from stupid connector issues which may render the keyboard and trackpad useless...
I feel divided about the connector issue now that I got USB-C to USB-C and USB-C to USB-A cables + the mandatory USB-C hub with ethernet, memory card reader, HDMI and USB A ports. It's cool to be able to plug USB-A cables directly but then I miss the versatility of USB-C and the ease of having bunch of same connectors around the laptop and without minding what port to use with charger. On the other hand I miss the Magsafe 2 charging port which is a lot more robust as a connector compared to USB-C. The connector issue will fade away when the external devices you're using are getting USB-C ports as well. The connector issue is kind of "iMac supports only USB and Firewire instead of SCSI, LocalTalk, ADB etc) but these transition periods are annoying and frustrating.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#27I picked up one of the 2017 MBPs with the first gen butterfly keyboard and although I’ve not had a key failure due to the dust issue, barely a day goes by without a coworker asking if I have something against my laptop because of how loud it makes my typing sound. The second generation ones are a significant improvement over the first but even those have other slight quirks, such as random double typing even on fresh devices. When I’m at home I’m happily back on my 2013 rMBP with the old fashioned keyboard, and if it was my money again tomorrow I’d think very carefully about what to buy, but still probably end up with a MacBook.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#28There's nothing intrinsically wrong with butterfly switches. Panasonic Let's Note laptops have had butterfly switches for years, and they work great. They have more key travel, though.
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#29Well ya can't exactly put Alps switches in something meant to be thin and lightweight...
Re: Is It Time to Call the Butterfly Switch Keyboard an Engineering Failure?
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not disagreeing, but: Dear Apple, enough with the thinner! I don't need or want my iPhone to be any thinner, I'd rather it not bend and I'd rather have a headphone jack. I don't need or want my MacBook to be any thinner than ~2015 MBPs; I care about weight, about a decent keyboard, and about convenient ports. I don't care about it being 5mm thicker or thinner.
I’ve had a hypothesis that the real reason phones keep being unnecessarily thin with not-quite-adequate batteries is that a larger, heavier phone hits the ground harder and breaks. I wonder how true that could be. It matters less with laptops, but still.
Thinner iPhones make even less sense when most of them will be stuck in a protective case because they're too slippery to use without one.
My last Android was a Droid Turbo, and it was perfect without a case: Kevlar back, rounded frame with textured rubber around. I wish Apple would take some clues from other manufacturers.