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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

gwern.net

11–20 of 322 posts

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#11
post #3

No conclusion? What's the point of doing research or reporting it if you learned nothing? Is this a koan?

Well reporting it is important even if you learned nothing. It could be that you personally could learn nothing, or it could be that there is nothing to learn. Distributing findings is core to scientific progress even if your findings are underwhelming.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#12
I'm eager to hear the results. I recently got an Awair 2.0 after seeing this talk by DHH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik

It quickly confirmed that, without turning my thermostat fan to "ON", my bedroom CO2 jumps from about 1000 ppm to 2000 ppm within a couple hours of us going to sleep.

In the fall, my wife and I started waking up in the middle of the night feeling like we couldn't breathe. What I figured out is that the neither the heat nor cooling was running because the weather was pretty much perfect. We have to keep the door closed because our cat will swat at us in the middle of the night otherwise. I figured there would naturally be enough of a draft to not make this a concern and it's a fairly large connected master bedroom/bathroom with high ceilings to hold a lot of air, but I guess that isn't enough. So that's when I learned about the "fan" function on my thermostat.... never had a need for it in my life.

Now I just need to figure out how to get lower than 1000 ppm, which is already a hit against cognitive function. Our house has no screens currently and even if we install some, it's not like I want to have windows open in the middle of winter. I've heard house plants don't have a huge effect, but I'm willing to try.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#13

I really wish I'd read these comments and realised the experiment isn't finished before scrolling up and down the article for five minutes trying to find the conclusion.

> I really wish I'd read these comments and realised the experiment isn't finished before scrolling up and down the article for five minutes trying to find the conclusion.

Gwern.net has useful heading information on each page. This particular one says:

> modified: 13 Dec 2018; status: in progress;

Presumably the status tag will be modified to "draft" or "finished" once conclusions are available. https://www.gwern.net/About#confidence-tags

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#14
post #3

No conclusion? What's the point of doing research or reporting it if you learned nothing? Is this a koan?

We should actually have more published unconclusive experiments. Scientists are pushed too hard to generate break-through results, even when there are none. Thats the reason why we're in current reproducibility crisis.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#15
post #3

No conclusion? What's the point of doing research or reporting it if you learned nothing? Is this a koan?

The hacker news user came to hacker news to read news. There used to be news said the user. And the user was enlightened.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#16
I've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example).

Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very precise and accurate components

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#17

I've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example). Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very…

I got an NDIR CO2 sensor on AliExpress for $20. Do you think one of those would just have low accuracy or be uncalibrated?

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#18

I've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example). Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very…

Looking at their materials[1], it's IR based and needs calibration. I'm sure it's output is interesting, but likely not super accurate given their started assumptions for the calibration process. Better sensors may be required before drawing any conclusions!

[1]: https://www.netatmo.com/en-gb/helpcenter/air-care/4/installa...

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#19

I've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example). Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very…

I got an NDIR CO2 sensor on AliExpress for $20. Do you think one of those would just have low accuracy or be uncalibrated?

I suspect both! I should compare a $250 one with the $20 one

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#20
post #12

I'm eager to hear the results. I recently got an Awair 2.0 after seeing this talk by DHH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRqh8oLY7Ik It quickly confirmed that, without turning my thermostat fan to "ON", my bedroom CO2 jumps from about 1000 ppm to 2000 ppm within a couple hours of us going to sleep. In the fall, my wife and I started waking up in the middle of the night feeling like we couldn't breathe. What I figure…

Install an air exchanger. Panasonic makes some that are reasonably priced.
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