Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants • Hacker News Board

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#91

Post by tomatotomato37 » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

thisismyaccoun7 wrote: post #70

nicolas_t wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That leads to a question I had recently, I know that some insurance will only reimburse in case of thefts if there's sign of a break-in. If someone lock-picks the lock, is there a trace of a break-in? Would such thefts be covered?

You can take apart the lock and see scratches on the pins as signs of picking, but bump keys are notorious for not providing a sign of break in.

I thought bump keys were the one of the more obvious methods since hammering the key in can easily dent the cylinder

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#92

Post by noobiemcfoob » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

tpaschalis wrote: post #88

I really can't understand what some people are smoking out there. Is it's a push/lobby from companies? A need to have Orwellian control over the tenants? Misguided 'fellowkids' approach to appear 'hip' and 'embrace tech'..? Or just plain silliness? Hanlon's razor is failing me.

Then you just don't understand the viewpoint of a landlord. If I have to coordinate service to fix the waterheater or something but I live 3 towns over, it's a lot easier to give a technician a temporary password to the property in a set time window.

/To do this requires a good relationship with your tenants and technicians

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#93

Post by mjcl » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

tpaschalis wrote: post #88

I really can't understand what some people are smoking out there. Is it's a push/lobby from companies? A need to have Orwellian control over the tenants? Misguided 'fellowkids' approach to appear 'hip' and 'embrace tech'..? Or just plain silliness? Hanlon's razor is failing me.

It’s both liability and labor thing. When a tenant moves out, large apartment buildings change the lock. With an electronic lock any member of staff can ‘rekey’ the lock in a few seconds.

For liability, the large companies use big key control systems to try and track which staff is checking out keys to what, but it’s still possible for staff to make unauthorized copies. With an electronic lock they get a nice report that shows all the times the lock was used and when the door was opened.

And finally, many property managers are control-freaks and they love that tenants need to ask to make ‘copies’ of the electronic keys. Previously the only real option for key control was something like Medeco and most don’t want to pay for that.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#94

Post by brmgb » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

cmg wrote: post #80

adenhoed wrote: post #73

In The Netherlands you have the right to replace the locks with your own locks, as long as you can re-install the original lock once you move out. How is that arranged in the US?

Do you need to provide your landlord with a copy of the key to your new lock? In the US, it's standard for a rental agreement and/or state law to specify that the landlord can enter your property with 24 hours notice even if you're not there, or to enter immediately in case of an emergency.

> In the US, it's standard for a rental agreement and/or state law to specify that the landlord can enter your property with 24 hours notice even if you're not there, or to enter immediately in case of an emergency.

As a European, I find the idea extremely shocking.

Here entering the residence of someone without their explicit consent is considered home invasion and can net you a year in jail and a fine of up to 15000 euros. It doesn't matter if you own the property as long as someone else lives their. It remains true if they are not paying. You will need the police and a court order if you want to enter.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#95

Post by thisismyaccoun7 » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

iwasakabukiman wrote: post #56

Can we change the title to “landlord”? I’m only seeing on person saying this is happening to them on Twitter and the title makes it sound extremely sensationalist.

My complex's owners are doing this, and from the person's details on Twitter, it looks to be the same company. They own properties in 22 US states with 250,000 residents according to their website.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#96

Post by BlackFly » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

regularfry wrote: post #83

talltimtom wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also locks you out after that neighbor you don’t like intentionally types a wrong code five times, because you where playing loud Music yesterday until 21:00, which isn’t against the rules but he/she doesn’t like it. Extremely smart.

To be fair, a tube of superglue has a similar effect on a dumb lock.

Pushing buttons doesn't scream vandalism like inserting glue into a lock does.

As a less vandalism like attack, consider when your drunk neighbours attempts to enter your apartment instead of their own. The security "feature" of a lock out is just an easily triggerable denial of service attack.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#97

Post by Faaak » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

DKnoll wrote: post #84

Faaak wrote: post #77

First thing I did when I moved into my flat was to change my locks. I bought various cylinders that open with the same key. Thus I can open my garage, my flat, and my other small spaces with the same key. Advantage too: the previous tenant wouldn't be able to access my home if they've kept the key. The landlord too. And if there's an unlikely urgence ? Well, just break the door (it's a cheap cardboard-y one)

That probably violates the terms of your lease unfortunately.

In Switzerland at least: no. It's considered the same as painting the walls: they have to be identical when you move out. In the meantime you do what you want.

But frankly, I would do it even if it was forbidden, as long as the door wouldn't be reinforced.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#98

Post by Faaak » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #90

Faaak wrote: post #77

First thing I did when I moved into my flat was to change my locks. I bought various cylinders that open with the same key. Thus I can open my garage, my flat, and my other small spaces with the same key. Advantage too: the previous tenant wouldn't be able to access my home if they've kept the key. The landlord too. And if there's an unlikely urgence ? Well, just break the door (it's a cheap cardboard-y one)

Most leases will explicitly require the landlord have unfettered access to the property. Usually, the only caveat being that the tenant will be given some amount of notice. My leases say 24 hours. /If I ever came to one of my properties and my key didn't work, you better bet you'd be evicted.

I see two options: 1) You announce before 24h, and therefore the renter can lend you a set of keys 2) You come unannounced. If it's an emergency you can break the door. If it's not then you've got no business being there.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#99

Post by Faaak » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #92

tpaschalis wrote: post #88

I really can't understand what some people are smoking out there. Is it's a push/lobby from companies? A need to have Orwellian control over the tenants? Misguided 'fellowkids' approach to appear 'hip' and 'embrace tech'..? Or just plain silliness? Hanlon's razor is failing me.

Then you just don't understand the viewpoint of a landlord. If I have to coordinate service to fix the waterheater or something but I live 3 towns over, it's a lot easier to give a technician a temporary password to the property in a set time window. /To do this requires a good relationship with your tenants and technicians

You can also give the technician the property's renter's phone number and let themselves coordinate.

Re: Landlords forcing smart locks on tenants

#100

Post by DKnoll » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

Faaak wrote: post #97

DKnoll wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably violates the terms of your lease unfortunately.

In Switzerland at least: no. It's considered the same as painting the walls: they have to be identical when you move out. In the meantime you do what you want. But frankly, I would do it even if it was forbidden, as long as the door wouldn't be reinforced.

Happy to hear that. Where I live (Ontario, Canada) it's not explicitly illegal but landlords are allowed to make the tenant not changing the locks a condition of their lease and most do because it is enforceable.