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Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

citylab.com

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Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#201

Post by mxuribe »

systemtest wrote: post #197
Simulacra wrote: post #169

Public transport should be free for everyone, and that is something I'm willing to pay higher taxes for. If it's free more people will use it, which will justify more investment.

I don't think that is fair to taxpayers that don't use public transport because they walk, bike or use a car.

I live and work in a suburb of NYC...and effectively MUST drive everywhere...and that sucks. I would happily pay more taxes IF they were devoted to supporting and upgrading and growing any/all public transit; and of course bringing any cost down to users/citizens. (I would much rather be able to take public transit myself to work instead of driving.)

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#202

Post by dorfsmay »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #107
mcny wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does that differ from state registrations and fuel taxes? The taxes are too low. > The report documents that the amount that road users pay through gas taxes now accounts for less than half of what’s spent to maintain and expand the road system. The resulting shortfall is made up from other sources of tax revenue at the state and local levels, generated by drivers and non-drivers alike. This subsidizing of car…

Trucks are the ones damaging the roads. They could pay their fair share and you can enjoy increased prices on all the goods you use delivered by their service.

Which would be in line with the GP's argument of self-sustain systems and not passing any cost anywhere else:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18956248

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#203

Post by Markoff »

this is quite common in central Europe, not sure what it's making Paris newsworthy

in Prague anyone under 15 travel for free (need to get is card which cost less than euro) and even adult accompanying toddler under 3 travel for free, of course retired people above 65-70 have everywhere in central Europe free travel

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#204

Post by louiskottmann »

bsaul wrote: post #194
louiskottmann wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a general rule for the subway in Paris. While it is true that some lines (13 is infamous) at some hours are really packed, most of the time it is fine. I was born in Paris and have lived there for 30+ years, and the vast majority of the time I can take the subway just fine.

if you work in IT chances are you’re going to the office a bit after peak hours and coming back home late. 13 is a mess indeed but 4 is also bad , 7 has a lot of trouble, 12 has crack addicts on the dock menacing passengers, etc.. i’m also born and raised in Paris, and lived there for 40 years, but once you take the subway in other crowded cities ( honk kong, tokyo, shanghai, sf , london, etc) you realize having a su…

Again, I disagree here.

I take the 4 all the time as it is right next to my place, without any issue. In fact I cannot even remember the last time it was packed.

I also traveled and did not find other subways to be considerably better in every aspect. Subway in Japan is horribly complicated for example, with different companies operating the various lines of some major cities! London's tube is known to be overcrowded as well, and I feel like technical issues happens everywhere but in Paris the driver actually tells you what's going on.

People like to romance what happens in Paris, don't be fooled, in reality it's just safe and fun in my opinion.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#205

Post by nolok »

shrewduser wrote: post #199
nolok wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the opposite, it's just as fair as when I pay for public healthcare despite being "never sick", when I pay for unemployment compensation despite not needing it, or when I pay for public school despite not having kids. It makes society better because it means less congestions on the street and less pollution, it makes it fairer for those that don't have a choice (because they're too far from work to bike or…

Healthcare and unemployment act more like insurance than a service though I don't entirely disagree I just think they're not great comparisons.

Ability to move around to (possible/prospective) jobs locations is a big factor in unemployment. Free public transport means losing my ability to pay for my car doesn't mean I lose the ability to go more than a couple of miles away from my house.

Not that the article here is for kids (and in particular for Paris) so my comparisons is not that great I admit but still, living in a rural area I've spent my entire teenage decade dependant on public transport to go to the school my parent wanted for me, to go to "the city" see my friends/visit places/go to the mediatheque where they had computers (!!!), and along with the food cost at school it was a major expense for my parents, that they would have had to cut on if one of them was unlucky and lost his or her job.

So it still rings very true to me. But again, given it's about Paris, my exemple is not that great. You probably realized I would probably be ok for it country wide though.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#206

Post by whiddershins »

Simulacra wrote: post #169

Public transport should be free for everyone, and that is something I'm willing to pay higher taxes for. If it's free more people will use it, which will justify more investment.

I used to think that, I love the utopian idea of just walking on any public transportation for free, and I would happily underwrite a little extra via taxes to make that a reality. But the counter argument really is that the minute you divorce a service entirely from payments, it is at increased risk of rapidly diverging from the needs and desires of the customer (user, consumer).

If I choose to bike or walk or take a cab because the train is being terrible, that is felt directly in decreased revenue. I think that’s important for keeping things a little more honest.

If someone can do a private shuttle bus more cheaply than the public transit, and it also offers better service, that should be made obvious. If the public service is entirely paid for by taxes, it would be really difficult to see what’s going on.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#207

Post by quotz »

Simulacra wrote: post #169

Public transport should be free for everyone, and that is something I'm willing to pay higher taxes for. If it's free more people will use it, which will justify more investment.

I live in the Balkans. The previous gov administration made public transport free for senior/old people that are retired (64+ y/o). They just kept spamming the busses as if its an amusement park, it was always full and dirty. They would spend the whole day in a bus, cruising around the city, use it as a meeting hub to meet other old people... Clearly it didnt work.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#208

Post by flamingbuffalo »

systemtest wrote: post #197
Simulacra wrote: post #169

Public transport should be free for everyone, and that is something I'm willing to pay higher taxes for. If it's free more people will use it, which will justify more investment.

I don't think that is fair to taxpayers that don't use public transport because they walk, bike or use a car.

This argument is really flawed. How is it different from: "I only take one road to and from work, why should I pay for roads other people take?"

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#209

Post by Kurtz79 »

mxuribe wrote: post #201
systemtest wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is fair to taxpayers that don't use public transport because they walk, bike or use a car.

I live and work in a suburb of NYC...and effectively MUST drive everywhere...and that sucks. I would happily pay more taxes IF they were devoted to supporting and upgrading and growing any/all public transit; and of course bringing any cost down to users/citizens. (I would much rather be able to take public transit myself to work instead of driving.)

Out of curiosity, why can't you use the existing transit system?

I travel often to NYC and it doesn't seem much different to those of many major European cities, at least in terms of reach.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#210

Post by Kurtz79 »

jdietrich wrote: post #151
adrianN wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metro is full because people commute to their workplace. I don't think a significant fraction lives within walking distance of their job.

You might be inclined to move home to be within walking distance of your office, or to work from home sometimes, or to use the (very good) Velib bike hire scheme, or buy a bicycle or a motor scooter. Metro rail is sexy, but it's only one part of the transport mix.

"You might be inclined to move home to be within walking distance of your office"

Very few people would have this luxury in city like Paris, where housing is prohibitely expensive in the city center, where many offices are traditionally located.

And, before you say "You might be inclined to find a job where more affordable housing is available", many people do not have so much choice in terms of where to work (same as working from home).

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