Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular • Hacker News Board

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#21

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

hoaw wrote: post #9

ohnope wrote: post #2

Love it. Their ongoing IKEA collaboration is definitely rubbing off. (downside: you pretty much get one shot folding the sheet metal the right way). Flat packed DIY build is great. Compatible with Eurorack, and the OP-Z is getting a CV/gate module. Now that Teenage has 2 products out there that are designed with modular expansion in mind, it will be exciting to see how they update them over the years.

What IKEA is good at is continuously decreasing the work involved, error rate, quality issues etc. I can see no practical purpose to folding the metal yourself in this case, other than to make it feel more special than it is.

It's also more fun. If someone wants an already assembled modular there are 2000 other options.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#22

Post by coldtea » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

ris wrote: post #3

Interesting that they decided to stick with the "Pocket Operator" name despite the fact that these can fit in nobody's pockets.

Depends on the pockets. Parkas and khaki pants can fit them for sure -- in the full assembly photo they look tiny too.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#23

Post by ris » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

svantana wrote: post #8

ris wrote: post #3

Interesting that they decided to stick with the "Pocket Operator" name despite the fact that these can fit in nobody's pockets.

The individual modules (the "operators") are about the same size as the PO line products.

I guess, but they're not exactly useful when carried around individually in a pocket.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#24

Post by zach43 » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #13

For anyone into this, you can undoubtedly enjoy playing around with https://vcvrack.com/ ;)

Thanks for suggesting this, I just downloaded VCV rack and its really cool!

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#25

Post by hoaw » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

JTTR wrote: post #20

hoaw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all fake of course. It probably costs <$50 to produce, most likely in China. It isn't custom by any means. It is modular, but seemingly it wouldn't make a lot of sense since that isn't what you are paying for. Doesn't matter much. A lot of hobbies are a status thing. Most people aren't going to actually make something out of it. An unused computer program doesn't say much. So you want the "custom" gear to compen…

While there's certainly mark-ups, the most popular modules are made by their manufacturers rather than outsourced to China. Doepfer in Germany, Make Noise in the US, Intellijel in Canada, ALM in the UK, Mutable Instruments is outsourced but only to another part of France. Long lead times on certain modules are par for the course when they're being made by one person. Of course, when it's one person making everything,…

That is certainly good to hear. Though I would argue that it is those manufacturers who deserve a lot of the credit. I don't want to be a buzzkill. I just hate when people get to to have their cake and eat it too.

All these words like "boutique", "indie", "hacker", "custom" or whatever you want to call it has meaning. Their positive connotation is based on some sort of substance. That there is something unique going on. Whether that is independence, a scene or something else. And Stockholm is truly awful for that these days.

I am certainly not negative toward independent, or small businesses. But as you grow there will at one point be significant incentive to pretend that there is substance when there isn't. So at one point you are selling "craft beer" from you mansion, while everyone else is struggling with e.g. distribution.

On the other hand sometimes people are scrappy just for its own sake, which isn't necessarily good either. I am not necessarily against outsourcing (even though I think a middle road would be the best), just put in on the tin.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#26

Post by disconcision » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

louismerlin wrote: post #4

I highly recommend to anyone interested in synths and music to go to a local shop and try out any modular system they have on display. It really brings a lot of creativity and playfulness to playing music. Me playing around on my modular system: http://youtu.be/jD-2xqTkGUc

Love it, thanks for sharing. Also curious as to what I could search to find more music similar to this.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#27

Post by hoaw » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

robbyt wrote: post #15

hoaw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What IKEA is good at is continuously decreasing the work involved, error rate, quality issues etc. I can see no practical purpose to folding the metal yourself in this case, other than to make it feel more special than it is.

I produce a some what similar Eurorack module. Ours is electrically more complicated, but mechanically much simpler. The final assembly is the most labor intensive part of our process. When we get an order from one of our retailers for 10+ products, it takes us a full day just to build/test/pack, because of this. By selling these as "Ikea style" I promise they're able to massively reduce the cost for consumers by out…

Unlikely for a number of reasons. For one Stockholm (and Sweden) is very expensive and their products already show more advanced manufacturing techniques. This suggests some sort of contract manufacturing. Their products are also already expensive themselves so it would really make sense to spend a lot of resources designing something to save on shipping or manufacturing. For IKEA it does because they have very large volume and small margins.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#28

Post by hoaw » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #21

hoaw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What IKEA is good at is continuously decreasing the work involved, error rate, quality issues etc. I can see no practical purpose to folding the metal yourself in this case, other than to make it feel more special than it is.

It's also more fun. If someone wants an already assembled modular there are 2000 other options.

Sure, but why not actually have something that you need to assemble for a good reason? Like some eurorack cases go for ~300€ and those are just a PCB, some wood and a metal rail. You make that modular in a flat pack for 30€ instead with the need for assembly and I am not complaining.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#29

Post by hoaw » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

robbyt wrote: post #18

hoaw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is so stupid, explain this to me. 1. Who actually needs boutique gear? I am not saying it isn't fun. I am not saying that it can't be a hobby in itself nor am I saying some tiny percentage of the music industry might need it. But in pretty much all the interviews I have read with successful musician they use something horribly mundane for most of their career, because it isn't about the gear. So does the weeken…

I'd guess that the design is the most expensive part of building these products. Their marketing for this product is arguably better than Apple. The design for the actual product is unparalleled. The electronics and software development, years spent on prototyping iterations, and overall refinement is expensive in terms of highly skilled labor.

That is what I am saying though. If you spend a ton of money and time on marketing and product development don't have people essentially pretend to be building it. Or say that it is modular when the case seemingly only supports your modules.

Re: Teenage Engineering’s Pocket Operator series goes modular

#30

Post by ohnope » Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

hoaw wrote: post #28

coldtea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also more fun. If someone wants an already assembled modular there are 2000 other options.

Sure, but why not actually have something that you need to assemble for a good reason? Like some eurorack cases go for ~300€ and those are just a PCB, some wood and a metal rail. You make that modular in a flat pack for 30€ instead with the need for assembly and I am not complaining.

Flat pack / DIY assembly does not magically lead to 10x reduction in the cost of an item.

Also, deciding to do DIY assembly changes how you think about / plan the design + manufacturing of the object, because you aren't training a workforce to assemble specialized parts, but now need a system that most people could pick up and assemble without any major mistakes. It's more design and thinnking, not less.