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25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

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Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#131

Post by sureaboutthis »

ndnxhs wrote: post #67
sureaboutthis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an article on dev.to. The home of frustrated redditors trying to make a name for themselves. I'm starting to see too many of these on HN and have never seen anything posted there worthwhile reading.

Is dev.to the new quora? I haven't looked too much at it but it didn't seem to be the worst.

The difference is Quora started out great with great questions and answers from authoritative sources but can now be thrown in the dung heap of ruin. dev.to, otoh, started out that way.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#132

Post by tonyedgecombe »

BurningFrog wrote: post #66
ellius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hannah Arendt draws a useful distinction between "labor" and "work." Labor is effort required to sustain life: catching food, finding water, plowing crops. Because living creatures need these things continually, labor never ends. Food is eaten or decays and new food must be grown. Work, on the other hand, has a defined start and endpoint. Ideally, it produces something enduring and unique. In ancient times, labor was…

Completely different angle: We're primates who by nature are very hierarchy oriented. We judge our lives by how high in the hierarchy we are. And no matter how rich society gets, how good our homes, health, food supply and culture are, we still end up on average in the middle of the pack. And maybe that's what feels like you have "nothing to show for it".

Roosevelt said that "comparison is the thief of joy".

I suspect the modern media doesn't help, it is full of people appearing to live richer lives than are attainable by the majority.

Perhaps we need to impose some real hardship on ourselves now and then to remind us how good we have it.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#133

Post by eloff »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #127
guntars wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you create an app that makes some annoying task take half the time, you can potentially save literal lifetimes of frustration for your users. The value created for the founders is a small fraction of the value created for the users.

Conversely, if you create an app and optimize it so that users spend way too much time in it relative to what they need, you'll probably rake in lots of money, but you'll also be responsible for much more value being destroyed for your users.

Basically everyone who works for Facebook. Think of the time it takes away from society and what that time is worth. Compare that with the pittance in advertising income they earn off it. That's more inefficient than a thief who steals jewellery and sells it for a tenth of its value. I don't think the small benefits from Facebook come close to the tremendous harm it does to society.

I closed my Facebook account years ago and have never missed it. I'm a lot richer (literally and figuratively) for not having wasted a thousand more hours on it.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#134

Post by martinsb »

I cannot express in words how much I feel I relate to this post. Big thanks to the author of the article and OP for posting it here.

A few thoughts:

* Don't compare yourself to others, nothing, absolutely nothing, good comes out of it. Ever. I know this is especially hard in times when anyone can brag about their accomplishments in a blink of an eye on Twitter, Facebook or anywhere else. Follow those people, learn from them but don't compare yourself to them.

* Even if you did not finish your projects you still have learned something which makes you a better programmer.

* Programming is just a tool. Nobody will care much about your code as long as it does its job - be it a great application, service or a useful library.

* Your job pays your bills, if you earn more than others (a very common case if IT jobs), donate money to charity, to a good cause.

* The author has taught a person to program and he created a website. This is not something to be jealous about, the author should be proud of himself. It sounds to be that the author is a good tutor, maybe there's an opportunity to participate in local meetups, organize workshops or start a career in that direction?

* As others already mentioned, programming is not the only thing in life. Maybe there can be other hobbies like painting, carpentry, or gardening?

EDIT: formatting

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#135

Post by xchaotic »

forinti wrote: post #117
ratsimihah wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some of us tend to mix up "a life lived" with overachieving. In other words, we only feel it worth if we produce something truly outstanding.

I've witnessed how one person who couldn't keep it together harmed a family two generations down the line. Life is hard and if you can give your kids a decent childhood, you've done your bit.

Please don't take that as my personal opinion, just a point for a good argument. If you have a nice family, raised and supported kids well into their adulthood, that is all very nice on a personal level, but globally what have you done? I by no means expect everyone to be the next Henry Ford or Edison, but if you're just living your life, you're just consuming planet's limited resources. Animals have lived like that for millions of years, sustainably, in a self balancing act. But I feel that humans are savvy enough to strive for more than just the daily grind and consumption, so that the world they leave behind is a better place, not worse.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#136

Post by justanother »

Hi there, programmer since age 4, professionally for about 27 years. You haven't heard of me. There's a fair chance you've used something I've worked on, but more likely you haven't. I'm over 40 and haven't had my zillion dollar Californian exit. In fact, despite extracting some rather generous sums from clients over the years, I still often struggle financially due to the people, animals, and causes I care for.

I know people who've had exits. Some of them have a family they neglected for it. Often there's an abused (or just cheated-on) spouse. Many of them are just pure sociopaths who would shank their own mothers, and literally gave all to pursue an exit. If you really wanted to join them, you know you could. But you haven't. This shows that despite your doubts about your career, you have some degree of integrity. And yes, I'm aware not all people with the Grand Exit achievement are this dirty, but having had a front-row seat enough times, I can verify it's substantially easier when they are. I should also mention I know some genuinely nice, and not incredibly talented, people who sort of stumbled into the Grand Exit and have been horribly alienated by the ruthless financial demands of entitled "friends and family."

You've chosen your battles, be proud of your choices. In just a few more decades, you and I and the overachievers will all be equal below the surface of the planet. Their names and works will be forgotten too.

Till then, let's have fun and maybe lift a couple other people up with us.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#137

Post by justaguyhere »

ratsimihah wrote: post #12
orev wrote: post #3

What every salary-person has to show for it: a life lived; bills paid; food on the table; health; a roof over your head; a body not ravaged and damaged by hard labor; the ability to relax and have some entertainment in the evening; a place to sleep; comfort; relative stability; the ability to make a living using mostly just your brain. Yes, perspective is important, and I’m not saying one should not strive to make mo…

Maybe some of us tend to mix up "a life lived" with overachieving. In other words, we only feel it worth if we produce something truly outstanding.

In other words, we only feel it worth if we produce something truly outstanding

By this metric, most of humanity probably feels it worthless, isn't it?

I understand this is HN and people here achieve more than the normal crowd - still, I don't get the obsession over being productive every second, the need to "produce something truly outstanding" etc. Whats wrong with just being happy, taking it easy, spreading happiness around us and just living a simple life? Instead of optimizing every waking second and moving the goal post until the day we die?

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#138

Post by n1vz3r »

As article author did, I code since I was eleven and yes, that's 25 years too. I feel for him, because perfectionism along with need of exhausting everyday grind (especially when you have kids) quite reduces our ability to spend productive time to create Next Big Thing. But for me, the biggest showstopper is that I love to code, but just to code. I don't care much about sharing what I did, nor I want to get approval from someone who uses my work. Maybe I will overcome my issue one day, as author did overcame his. (edit: spelling)

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#139

Post by rbanffy »

justaguyhere wrote: post #137
ratsimihah wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some of us tend to mix up "a life lived" with overachieving. In other words, we only feel it worth if we produce something truly outstanding.

In other words, we only feel it worth if we produce something truly outstanding By this metric, most of humanity probably feels it worthless, isn't it? I understand this is HN and people here achieve more than the normal crowd - still, I don't get the obsession over being productive every second, the need to "produce something truly outstanding" etc. Whats wrong with just being happy, taking it easy, spreading happin…

:-)

> By this metric, most of humanity probably feels it worthless, isn't it?

Everyone can produce something outstanding. We often confuse that with the recognition that comes from that something becoming noticed by others.

Do something you love, for the love of doing it. Of course, keep the family happy, fed, and housed, but never forget we are more than work and money and that our worth is not derived from how others see us.

We HN'ers like to do a lot and we often get recognition from that, but really makes us who we are is what we love doing. The rest are side-effects not goals.

Re: 25 years of coding, and I'm just beginning

#140

Post by rbanffy »

TomMckenny wrote: post #69
orev wrote: post #3

What every salary-person has to show for it: a life lived; bills paid; food on the table; health; a roof over your head; a body not ravaged and damaged by hard labor; the ability to relax and have some entertainment in the evening; a place to sleep; comfort; relative stability; the ability to make a living using mostly just your brain. Yes, perspective is important, and I’m not saying one should not strive to make mo…

Being grateful makes perfect sense. But being satisfied with just that sees a bit of a waste. Perhaps even a bit ungrateful. Should I be satisfied if my headstone says simply "I was comfortable"?

When my daughter says that to me after watching TV or sleeping on top of me (when I watch TV or sleep on the couch), I find it the best compliment I can get.
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