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Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#71
Yep. Understand conversion. Figure out what the business needs the website for and how you can deliver that. 90% of templates cover the generic business needs. Make your money by explaining the difference between warm and cold leads, how 98% of the website traffic will be warm leads (unless they are blogging/content generating all the time, which they probably aren't if Squarespace etc is an option) and how creating a set of specific lead pages can be used with AdWords etc etc., which could be built in to your offering.

I don't know how relevant "field of dreams" is for a bunch of people here, but "if you build it they will come" absolutely does not apply to the web anymore. Explain that to your client, explain that a Squarespace site or WordPress template relies on pretty much that - and you'll make something that they can a tally generate leads from.

Of course, if it's just brochureware you'll need to tailor this a little better - "what are they looking for, should this be all on the homepage? Do we need lead gen pages?" etc - this is the custom solution.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#72

There is lots of opportunity out there, but it depends on what you mean by ‘small business’. Super small companies (under 10 to 15 people in this context) are usually best off with SquareSpace or Wix. Companies slightly larger than this invariably end up wanting/needing things that these platforms can’t offer, and have the kind of budgets that can support a solo operator or small team. At this level, you are competin…

How do you find clients? Can your mantra work from someone outside US trying to offer exceptional services? :)

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#73
It's... complicated. I actually started a sort of "startup" (intrapreneurship/ startup within a corporation) to help designers make more money/ be more successful [1]. So I talked to many people and studied what makes them successful.

In my experience/ opinion, what sets a successful designer apart is... marketing, and client management. I mean, they're not bad at their trade - you have to be good enough; but the most appreciated ones were standing out to me not because of their amazing graphical skills, or innovative ideas - but on how structured they were in approaching the projects & the relationships with their customers. E.g. some tricks that I've learned and seemed to work well:

- get the client invested early: ask a token price to analyze the project - weeds-out non-serious clients who have no intention to pay; then get them to do some consistent "work" for you - e.g. one designer was asking clients/business owners to fill in a consistent form with details about his business, how he sees his clients, the market, the competition, what he does well (better than competition) etc. By the time the client finished this, (s)he was already invested both financially & with work/time, and actually _wanted_ the designer to succeed. - Pay attention to what the client says; use the client's own words to justify design decisions/ present your work. Makes the client feel you truly understand him - NEVER, EVER surprise the client. You don't want to proudly present you final work, hoping that he'll be pleasantly surprised by your skills; that seldom ends up well. You want to constantly keep him in touch with what you are doing, and ask him to make (inconsequential) decisions along the way. That way, he "owns" the work too, and you won't risk that he wants "just a small change" or to "try something slightly different" in the end. - Along the same lines as with previous points - introduce "checkpoints" (with payments whenever possible) along the way, where you get explicit "ok"/ "you're on the right track". Once humans have agreed to something, it's psychologically hard for them to go back and ask for something else.

I don't know, there were lots of "tips" like that, but the bottom line is that you're a "small business owner" first, as a freelance; and only then you're a designer. So what really really matters is to learn to work well with your clients.

[1] The opportunity is real, I believe. I was afraid initially that people won't be willing to share their process/ how they work/ what makes them successful, but that turned out to be a complete non-issue. There's a sort of pride in all of the successful people, they don't feel they are successful because they know "a few secret tricks", and thus are in fact very open & willing to share details of how they work. It's sort of a way to brag about how good they are.

BUT - I got to a point where unfortunately I didn't have enough internal support in the corporation, and to make the project successful I would've needed to invest many nights & weekends of my own time, to build the MVP and prove its success. And all that, while retaining exactly zero ownership of it all - I would've basically worked for the hope of a bonus or promotion, and with zero control - even if I was successful, at any point a senior manager could've taken control of the project and taken it to a different direction that I didn't want. I just decided the rewards were not worth the effort, and gave up :(

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#74

There is lots of opportunity out there, but it depends on what you mean by ‘small business’. Super small companies (under 10 to 15 people in this context) are usually best off with SquareSpace or Wix. Companies slightly larger than this invariably end up wanting/needing things that these platforms can’t offer, and have the kind of budgets that can support a solo operator or small team. At this level, you are competin…

Wow, that's quite an income for Wordpress sites. Well done! If you don't mind my asking a couple questions:

1. Are you based in an urban area like SF or NYC?

2. How long did it take you to build up your clientele?

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#75

There is lots of opportunity out there, but it depends on what you mean by ‘small business’. Super small companies (under 10 to 15 people in this context) are usually best off with SquareSpace or Wix. Companies slightly larger than this invariably end up wanting/needing things that these platforms can’t offer, and have the kind of budgets that can support a solo operator or small team. At this level, you are competin…

> Beware though: success depends on more than just being able to build nice websites. You have to know how to sell yourself, manage customer expectations and a whole slew of soft skills to position yourself as a trusted advisor and expert. You need to understand your customers business, their challenges and pain points, how their customers think and behave, etc. Etc.

Those skills are hard won. Sounds like you could create a great course and monetize it.

(Not talking about udemy etc, talking about a high end course with sensible price points in the hundreds or more)

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#77

There is lots of opportunity out there, but it depends on what you mean by ‘small business’. Super small companies (under 10 to 15 people in this context) are usually best off with SquareSpace or Wix. Companies slightly larger than this invariably end up wanting/needing things that these platforms can’t offer, and have the kind of budgets that can support a solo operator or small team. At this level, you are competin…

Wow, that's quite an income for Wordpress sites. Well done! If you don't mind my asking a couple questions: 1. Are you based in an urban area like SF or NYC? 2. How long did it take you to build up your clientele?

1. Windsor, Ontario, Canada is where I am based and most of my clients are, though I do have customers here and there all over North America. One is based in Nunavut, Northwest Territories, Canada. Now THAT is far north.

2. Several years. First couple were tough. I took a 66% pay cut on Year 1 from my role as a senior developer at a Fortune 50 company.

I should add - I’ve never met about 30% of my customers in person, and interact with them strictly by phone. I’m presently sitting in Mexico on vacation, and met one of my clients for the first time in the airport in the way here.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#78
I am not a web developer by profession (I'm a marketing director and entrepreneur), but I freelance 2-3 sites per year on the side. Most of these sites are fairly simple sites for small businesses and organizations. I make more money doing this (per hour) than most other freelancers I've met, and it's because I offer what my clients can't get with Wix/Squarespace: effective, high end design. I'm a decent web developer (most of you on here would destroy me, but I do what I do well), but I'm a really good designer, and I understand how to impart a site with a certain brand and professional gloss due to my marketing and design background. Anyone can launch a website these days, but not anyone can create a tool that changes perceptions and increases conversions.

So you have to offer something more than just a website. You have to have a portfolio that shows that you can create a site that puts their business/brand above their competitors in the eyes of their customers. Most importantly, to make this viable, you have to find clients that understand and appreciate the importance and value of this and have the budget to spend on it. Forget building sites for restaurants, mom and pops, and other cash-strapped businesses. You have to build relationships with the companies who make big money, and then give them a tool to make even more. Then the payment you're asking become an investment, and investments are easier to stomach than costs.

Re: Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

#80
post #52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You contact them. They are typically pretty vocal online, so finding them is not that difficult.

You mean, cold email them? Just pitch them and ask if they have surplus work?

Get out to networking events, local business chambers, local community organiations, etc.

For example: One of our oldest business associates, who has passed over a lot of work over the years, we met volunteering for the local seafood festival.

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