Ask HN: Is there any money in website design for small businesses anymore?

I think web-design in the SMB market is completely commoditized between website builders and even CSS toolkits like Bootstrap lowering the barrier to entry. I barely know CSS and will just buy a $20 design from wrapbootstrap and the client doesn't care.

Anything related to web-design should be a side-effect of the true product you're selling, which in your case should be web-based software application development (IMO).

My opinion:

#1) Get really good at a web-framework. Doesn't matter which, but something like laravel would be a great choice. Learn MySql/MSSQL to go with it.

#2) Market yourself as a specialized consultant and bill $100 hr+. I don't know what market you're in, but if this is a big leap for you then work up to it. The kind of clients you want to work with will pay this without blinking. Sometimes they won't even know about the bill because it goes straight to AP. blah blah blah patio11.

#3) Never say you do web-design. Say, 'I convert your MS Access application that runs a critical component of your business (barely) into a multi-user/role, always-online, accessible-from-home web-application. Along the way we're also going to streamline this to make your company more money. It will pay for itself. That will be $30k.'

There's a fundamental question to ask - am I adding value?

If you're a low-skilled web developer who can knock together a reasonable website using something like Wordpress, you probably aren't offering a service that is usefully better than Squarespace or Wix. You might still pick up some work from businesses that just can't be bothered to do it themselves, but you'll be continually squeezed on your rates.

If you understand online marketing and can help businesses increase their sales, you're in a good position. Some small businesses just want a pretty website or a cool app for the sake of vanity, but most would prefer to make more money. If you know a reasonable amount about UX and SEO and direct marketing, you can justify a decent daily rate.

Basic stuff like "you haven't updated the menu on your website since 2015" or "Google Maps is directing people to the wrong side of your building" can make a meaningful difference to someone's bottom line. I've spoken to a lot of small business owners who were surprised to learn that an email newsletter subscriber is usually several orders of magnitude more valuable than a Twitter follower. It's not rocket science, but it's worth paying for. Squarespace can commoditise the technical function of web design, but they can't commoditise marketing consultancy.

There is lots of opportunity out there, but it depends on what you mean by ‘small business’. Super small companies (under 10 to 15 people in this context) are usually best off with SquareSpace or Wix. Companies slightly larger than this invariably end up wanting/needing things that these platforms can’t offer, and have the kind of budgets that can support a solo operator or small team.

At this level, you are competing with advertising agencies and marketing firms. Or you can turn those ad agencies into your clients - many don’t do the kinds of volume to support an in-house team.

I did well over 200k last year building, fixing and maintaining WordPress websites, working from home in a region with a relatively low cost of living. I expect to do even better this year, though I have resisted the urge to grow via hiring - I prefer to pick and choose my projects and be exclusive. My clients are a mix of agencies and “mid-size businesses”. I turned away another 50k of opportunities that didn’t feel like a good fit.

Beware though: success depends on more than just being able to build nice websites. You have to know how to sell yourself, manage customer expectations and a whole slew of soft skills to position yourself as a trusted advisor and expert. You need to understand your customers business, their challenges and pain points, how their customers think and behave, etc. Etc.

> The kind of clients you want to work with will pay this without blinking. Sometimes they won't even know about the bill because it goes straight to AP.

I agree #3, but on #2 - I've never dealt with any business of individual who operated like a blank check ("just send the bill to AP"). They all have budgets - implicit or explicit - and all want a rough idea of range at the very least. Is this a $3k project or a $20k project? They all have a need to know up front. You can sometimes tell up front - you get better at it - when people are going to complain about it more.

Told someone on a project they were looking "in the $2k range, at $x/hr". Sent a bill for $2200, and they flipped out. "You said it was $2000!"). Well.. no, I emailed you that it would be roughly in the $2k range, and if it was going to go much outside that, I'd let you know beforehand. I got you your project done 3 days ahead of when you wanted as well... blah blah blah.

Written agreements up front with clear expectations, etc.

More to the point on money, working with people where the money is coming directly out of their pocket (vs an operating business where there's a budget, and the person you're dealing with is simply managing a budget) will take you much further. IME, most of the people you work with where the money is directly from their pocket will watch every nickel and take $9 of time to explain a $2 expense.

This isn't to say you should pad billing or rip people off by any means, but... taking hours to explain how web hosting works, and that no, we can't build a custom ERP system on your godaddy account that you prepaid for 4 years in advance last week when you bought your domain name, and that if this really is a "million dollar idea", you will need to spend more than $200 for an MVP. All of that is low-value stuff you want to figure out how to avoid.

Impressive figures, congratulations for growing your business that much. I've always had a hard time being taken seriously when I was doing Wordpress websites, may I where do you get clients? You should share your experience in a blog, I'd love to read that kind of stuff.