50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#191

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #185

Fomite wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between chronically infected (which is true) and that the source of CF is an infection, which is the part of your theory that's unsupported. "the way it works vaginally and in the lungs ought to be consistent." - not necessarily, and especially not when you're describing symptoms (vaginal dryness resulting in uncomfortable sex), because the mucous of your lungs and sexual lubrication serve very d…

Having more difficulties conceiving is also consistent with uncomfortable sex. I found this article [1] that seems pretty consistent with the dehydrated mucus hypothesis. I don't know if it's reputable, and I only read the summary, because it quickly got over my head. [1] https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/89752

I haven't paid much attention to the reproductive issues typical for CF, but I'm sure they are more complicated than thick mucus. IIRC, something like 97% of men with CF lack a vas deferens and are thus unable to deliver sperm when they ejaculate.

I think there is a lot more going on with CF than lack of adequate mucus. I was merely trying to provide a fairly straightforward example of what seems like an obvious error in logic for a biology mental model.

Since mucus has an immune function and people with CF have a terribly compromised immune system, the assumption that we overproduce it seems flawed on the face of it and fails to be consistent with widespread reports of vaginal dryness.

Thank you for the link, but this kind of argumentation is usually not helpful.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#192

Post by samatman » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:24 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #186

samatman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phlegm is mucous of the respiratory system, by definition. Vaginal anything can't be phlegm for that reason. Not to take anything away from the rest of your post; dealing with an idiopathic condition that your doctors don't understand must be very frustrating. Best of luck.

I'm aware that the vagina does not produce phlegm, which is why I added the word pus -- which someone else felt the need to correct and inform me phlegm and pus are not the same thing. Both replies appear to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about. This is the norm: I'm a former homemaker, so I must not know anything medical. I'm human. I make mistakes. I'm not a doctor and I don't speak like one. However, I…

One is a typo, the other a factual error.

Vaginas don't produce phlegm, period, and never will.

I don't know you from Adam, I have no idea about your past and also don't care much.

In this one, specific instance, you do not know what you're talking about. Pouring half a page out doesn't change that.

There's no need to be defensive about it, or take it as more than it is. This is HN. Mistakes get pointed out.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#193

Post by matt-snider » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:25 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #94

ummonk wrote: post #86

And 50 years later I still struggle to find yogurt that hasn’t been stripped of its fat at office snack fridges.

I often struggle to find yoghurt for children that is flavoured but not intensely sweetened... though even that's beginning to change in Australia with some great options from a few different brands. Look at these macros—pretty impressive for a kids food: http://www.tamarvalleydairy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Screen... Unfortunately they only sell it in pouches—no option to buy the same product in a large tub.

I like to buy Bulgarian or Greek yoghurt and add jam to it. That way you can control the sugar content. Those types of yoghurts in particular also have a great, slightly sour taste that is great on its own once you get used to the relative lack of sweetness.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#194

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:30 AM UTC

Fomite wrote: post #187

toast0 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having more difficulties conceiving is also consistent with uncomfortable sex. I found this article [1] that seems pretty consistent with the dehydrated mucus hypothesis. I don't know if it's reputable, and I only read the summary, because it quickly got over my head. [1] https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/89752

"Having more difficulties conceiving is also consistent with uncomfortable sex." - Difficulties exist in women with CF who don't report pain during sex.

I did not realize the degree to which I suffered vaginal dryness until I was like 40 or something. Vaginal dryness was my "normal." I didn't realize it was quite abnormal.

I generally did not have pain during sex because I got married at 19 to my "high school sweetheart" and he and I accommodated my vaginal dryness without making a big deal of it and I didn't realize how much we were doing to accommodate it until after I finally had a diagnosis and was getting divorced. It was our "normal" and we were oblivious to the fact that it wasn't normal at all because neither of us had much experience prior to getting together when we were both 17.

So I will suggest that lack of reports of pain during sex may say more about a woman's sex partner than about how much vaginal dryness she is experiencing.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#195

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:34 AM UTC

samatman wrote: post #192

DoreenMichele wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that the vagina does not produce phlegm, which is why I added the word pus -- which someone else felt the need to correct and inform me phlegm and pus are not the same thing. Both replies appear to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about. This is the norm: I'm a former homemaker, so I must not know anything medical. I'm human. I make mistakes. I'm not a doctor and I don't speak like one. However, I…

One is a typo, the other a factual error. Vaginas don't produce phlegm, period, and never will. I don't know you from Adam, I have no idea about your past and also don't care much. In this one, specific instance, you do not know what you're talking about. Pouring half a page out doesn't change that. There's no need to be defensive about it, or take it as more than it is. This is HN. Mistakes get pointed out.

I spoke of both vaginas and lungs. Your assumption that I think vaginas produce phlegm when I provided two words -- phlegm and pus -- is the only error here. I have never thought vaginas produce phlegm and I don't understand why you think I do since I don't think that's a logical interpretation of anything I said.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#196

Post by paavoova » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

masonic wrote: post #154

paavoova wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vegan then you don't get as much variety I simply fail to see how it's possible to eat vegan low-carb. Everything vegan, be it legumes, vegetables, or fruits, have carbs. Legumes are 2/3 carbs, so they're out of the question. Even nuts, despite their high fat/moderate protein content, have an appreciable amount of carbs. Even peanuts, a low-carb legume, have 21 grams of carbs/100g. Which just leaves processed plant…

protein gets converted into glucose via gluconeogenesis But how much gluconeogenesis even happens on a vegan diet? On a keto diet, it's necessary for organs that run on glucose, such as the heart. Non-keto diets should have plenty of sucrose/fructose/glucose already available.

As far as I understand, all excess amino acids (that is, not used for protein synthesis), are indiscriminately metabolized for energy, diet doesn't factor into it. Your body cannot readily store amino acids outside of those free floating in the bloodstream (although it can store them in the form of tissue to catabolize later). A quick search will tell you that 13 amino acids are exclusively glucogenic (as opposed to ketogenic). Given that metabolism occurs in the liver, and the liver has little use for immediate energy, little direct oxidation occurs, so probably the majority of amino acids are converted into glucose and transported elsewhere. This is the reason your urine is yellow, it's from the urea which contains dietary nitrogen waste from the constant metabolism of protein (carbohydrates/fats don't contain nitrogen).

Didn't bother with sources, so feel free to do your own research.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#197

Post by grondilu » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:56 AM UTC

MikeGale wrote: post #189

For years I've essentially not consumed sugar except for that in vegetables etc. I still suffer from this rubbish though: 1. I often can't find any meat in the supermarket that has not been denatured by having the fat removed. 2. I reject a lot of products which I suspect I'd like because they have added sugar. 3. I have to tamp down on my anger when I hear somebody rabbiting on about the dangers of fat. Humans truly…

> 1. I often can't find any meat in the supermarket that has not been denatured by having the fat removed.

Youtuber Thomas Delauer makes the case that this is not such a big deal since you can always mix lean meat with other sources of fat (like butter or coco nut oil).

Also I once heard that toxins are accumulated in fat tissue so if you eat animals that were poorly fed (for instance cows fed with grains instead of grass), by only eating lean cuts you dodge that bullet.

The ideal meat might come from extinct megafauna anyway : I'm personally seduced by the theory that the neolithic revolution was some kind of a hack we had to pull off when we hunted down all big game to extinction at the end of the last glaciation.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#198

Post by fireattack » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

malkia wrote: post #175

fireattack wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yogurt in America really sucks. They're either "Greek" (strained yogurt), which tastes horrible IMO, or sweetened to death with artificial flavors. I just want some "traditional" types that are sweetened by just sugar with no whey or whatever stripped out.

You should try to find this one - https://www.instacart.com/whole-foods/products/163404-white-... - I'm bulgarian, and this one while not perfect is pretty close to my taste.

Thank you, will try.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#199

Post by Udik » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:58 AM UTC

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #184

squirrelicus wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decline in world-wide health Wat. Data please.

Every nation that switches to a western (American) diet gets fat.

American, maybe. Western, really?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bigthink.com/two-maps-and-one-g...

It seems that obesity in Europe affects 1/4 to 1/5, while in the US is 1/3. The EU country with highest incidence of obesity is alse the one that is famous for its lack of a (decent) food culture, the UK.

As an Italian, I find it hard to convince myself that US obesity problems have one single cause to blame, sugar, rather than a food culture that is generally bent towards the childishly fancy: grilled meat, fried stuff, overwhelming sauces, the super-fatty, the uber-sugary, no vegetables and very little home cooking.

Re: 50 Years Ago, the Sugar Industry Paid Scientists to Blame Fat (2016)

#200

Post by Fomite » Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #194

Fomite wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Having more difficulties conceiving is also consistent with uncomfortable sex." - Difficulties exist in women with CF who don't report pain during sex.

I did not realize the degree to which I suffered vaginal dryness until I was like 40 or something. Vaginal dryness was my "normal." I didn't realize it was quite abnormal. I generally did not have pain during sex because I got married at 19 to my "high school sweetheart" and he and I accommodated my vaginal dryness without making a big deal of it and I didn't realize how much we were doing to accommodate it until aft…

That's possible - but there's also a perfectly explainable mechanism of action (thickened cervical mucus) that doesn't involve you dismissing the experience of other women who don't report vaginal dryness as a problem but do statistically experience lower rates of successful conception.