Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

news.ycombinator.com

201–210 of 231 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#201
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree actually. I think mathematics is the best field to self-study. There is nothing in mathematics that cannot be explained on the paper. There are many textbooks that are very good that in most universities professors won't be that good anyway. I went to UC Berkeley to study mathematics (ended up studying CS though) which is supposed to be a top department, but most of my textbooks were better teache…

As someone who did study both math and CS at university I disagree. I think there are numerous courses that can more easily be self-taught[1], mostly what one would encounter in their first ~2 years in a math degree. After that things get conceptually a lot more difficult. For me personally I didn't really need an instructor for most of my calculus courses, or ordinary differential equations, or most of the linear al…

I had the same experience. I tried to self study Math. I hit a wall where it became inefficient at best and beating my head against the wall for the rest. I couldn’t do it alone past material normally covered in the first two years of university.

I eventually did get to university and get a Math degree. It was much more rewarding and fun to do it with professors and other students.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math is not just a tool; it is an area of intellectual exploration. By the same logic studying history or philosophy is a colossal waste of time, too.

so, in real world application, what's the most useful/valuable topic in mathematics? Although I wonder for 90% people of this world that math is just a tool to pass the exam at school, not any real application (or they just can't sense it).

It depends on what your relative judgements are for what is deemed 'valuable' or 'useful'. Are the number theory foundations that allow digital transactions to occur more valuable than the subtraction done to figure out how many minutes until the next hour?

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#203
When you first start out in math you won't even know the basics like e.g. "proof by contrapositive" but a basic "proof course" perhaps accompanied by "Linear Algebra by Hoffman and Kunze" will get you pretty far.

You can never ever ever ever learn too much linear algebra. It is pivotal in the development of e.g. "field extensions" and "differential geometry" to name two random items.

That said, partway through Hoffman you should start an algebra book like Dummit and Foote so you can see groups and rings.

*After you know how to prove things you could read an analysis text instead of Linear Algebra

Lastly, any serious math requires some topology, but it's less about what a topology is and more about knowing how to quickly apply the basics so certain statements are easy to state/prove/think about

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. I left undergrad after four terms and self-studied to the point of having published research, giving invited talks, and even being a visiting researcher for three months with my expenses paid. Links: http://content.algebraicgeometry.nl/2017-2/2017-2-007.pdf https://projecteuclid.org/download/pdfview_1/euclid.ecp/1508... Look for my name (Thomas / Tom Price) on these pages: https://web.archive.org/web…

Just curious, were you working while you studied? How did you manage this?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Of course I can go into much more depth in my studies / research while not working. I work the minimum amount necessary to pay my living expenses so I can devote a maximum amount of time to freely pursuing other interests, which includes pure math among other things.

There are plenty of people who devote several years of their life to studying, and must pay not only their living expenses but tuition fees as well. In my opinion, those are the people who you should be asking “how did you manage this”.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#205
post #203

When you first start out in math you won't even know the basics like e.g. "proof by contrapositive" but a basic "proof course" perhaps accompanied by "Linear Algebra by Hoffman and Kunze" will get you pretty far. You can never ever ever ever learn too much linear algebra. It is pivotal in the development of e.g. "field extensions" and "differential geometry" to name two random items. That said, partway through Hoffma…

Lastly, the further you go the more you'll see that there are no islands in math. Everything uses everything else. (For example, you can go back and forth between groups and topological spaces via e.g. the fundamental group)

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#207
post #38

Here's my personal opinion about how you should approach this. It's all well and good to want to cover undergraduate math courses. When you are actually enrolled in a university, you will have enough inertia and motivation to complete the courses. However, when you are self-studying you are doing it all on your own. It's hard to be as thorough and cover everything. And so I ask, what really is your goal here? You don…

This is terrible advice. Apart from the last sentence. A better advice would be to specify which subject to learn.

For example, (since I don't really have much time)

1. Topology (book by Munkres)

2. Real Analysis and Measure Theory (book series by Stein Shakarchi)

3. Algebra (book by Aluffi)

4. Linear Algebra (book by Friedberg Insel)

5. Measure Theoretic Probability (book by Cinlar)

6. Differential Geometry (book Smooth Manifolds by Lee)

7. Numerical Analysis (book by Quarteroni)

8. Set Theory and Propositional Logic (books by Goldrei)

This is what one will mainly learn in a strong undergrad/grad math program. Once this is done, then there are different tracks to follow.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#208
Part I

I have some opinions on the question in the OP: I'm heavily self-taught from independent study in math; that study helped me with, and at times was part of my good career in, applied math and computing before my Ph.D. in pure/applied math and helped a lot for my Ph.D.

For a curriculum:

(1) Do the standard high school math, Algebra I, Plane Geometry (based on proofs), Algebra II, Trigonometry, and Solid Geometry (based on proofs). In each of these, it is sufficient (A) to work most of the more challenging exercises and (B) try to think a little about what is going on. For (C), it would be good occasionally, say, 1-4 times a year, to chat about your progress with a good mathematician, Ph.D., likely a college prof. To find a Ph.D. who will give you an hour or so per visit, maybe do some networking. If you don't like the first choice, e.g., if they are not encouraging and helpful, then try a different Ph.D. mathematician.

(2) Do Analytic Geometry and Calculus. Use a good college textbook. Since highly polished texts have been widely available for decades, there's no need to pay big bucks for new copies of the latest. So get a good used text. Better yet, get 1-4 good texts, use your favorite one as your primary source and the others for more content, alternate descriptions, evidence of what is more/less important, etc.

Sets: Now in an important sense, essentially all of math is heavily about sets. For first calculus, you don't need to know much about sets; the following should be nearly sufficient:

By 1900 or so, a lot of math was known, but there was a nagging, somewhat philosophical, question of what math really is. The answer of pure math was to construct a foundation in, say, the deep basement, that would answer the question but not much change the rest. The answer was to start with sets and then define everything else in terms of sets. In particular do some somewhat tricky and obscure work to define some sets that look, work, walk, talk, etc. like the numbers on the line, the real numbers. We don't think of the real numbers this way, but the effort addressed the philosophical question -- or, if I can get you to believe in sets, then I've got you for the rest of math. Much of the early work on sets was from G. Cantor. Yes, soon there were some issues from Bertrand Russell and then Kurt Gödel and, later, Paul Cohen.

For a long time in math, you can regard a set as a conceptual (imaginary) collection of some kind, e.g., all the peas in a little jar in the back of the refrigerator, all the people with an iPhone, all the real numbers on the line, all the water molecules in the earth's oceans, all the parabolas, all the trials you might do in a lab experiment, and much more -- really, from the philosophical approach to what math is for all of math. Or intuitively sets are the containers for what we are thinking about.

Functions: Much of math is about functions. E.g.,

     f(x) = 2x^2 + 3x - 4
So, in pure math, the function is f. The x is the argument of the function, i.e., a variable which is essentially always in math from,

     "Think of something; call it x."
where at least in calculus usually the thing are thinking about is a number. Or, to "solve for x", think

     "I suspect there is a number such
     that these conditions hold; I want to
     find if there is such a number and if
     so what its actual numerical value
     is."
Now you understand what math means when it talks about variable x and function f. Then, given variable (e.g., number) x and function f, f(x) is the value of f at x.

E.g., for this set stuff, a function gets defined in terms of sets, e.g., the set of all ordered pairs

     (x, f(x))
for x in some set called the domain of the function. In calculus, the domain is usually the set of real numbers, that is, the points on the number line (yes, that's not the tricky set theory definition of the real numbers).

So, with the ordered pairs

     (x, f(x))
we have a very precise definition of a function in terms of sets (ordered pairs can also be defined in terms of sets).

Of course, in actual work, especially in applied math, nearly no one actually thinks of a function as a set of ordered pairs.

Completeness: There is an old joke, partly appropriate, that

     "Calculus is the elementary
     consequences of the completeness
     property of the real number system.".
Intuitively completeness is, if you are converging to something by more and more accurate approximations, then there really is something there for you to converge to. This property does NOT hold for the rational numbers -- the rational numbers are all the numbers of the form (that can be written as) p/q for p and q integers (whole numbers, positive, negative, and zero) with q not zero. Why? E.g., can use the rational numbers to approximate as closely as we please the square root of 2, but the square root of 2 can't be a rational number. Why not? Because if the square root of 2 were rational, then we would also have for integers p and q, q not zero

     (p/q)(p/q) = 2
or

     (p)(p) = 2(q)(q)
So the left side has some even number (possibly 0) factors of 2 while the right side has an odd number of factors of 2, and this violates the fundamental theorem of arithmetic that each integer can be factored in only one way as a product of prime numbers.

Well, a big deal about the real numbers is that they are complete; i.e., intuitively, if something converges, then there is something to converge to. Completeness is a big deal because it generalizes, especially to Hilbert space that you may come to.

So, in calculus often we make approximations that can become as accurate as we please, and we want the completeness property to know that what these approximations approach, limits, can exist.

E.g., with the real numbers, if we make more and more accurate approximations to the square root of 2, then we know that our approximations will converge to the actual square root of 2 which DOES exist as a real number.

Sets get to be quite important in math in the last years of college math and beyond. But for calculus, nearly all of that subject, especially what learn in a first calculus course, was quite solid well before G. Cantor. So, in practice, when studying first calculus, we don't see much about sets. So, for first calculus, sets remain mostly a topic in the deep basement that addresses an old philosophical issue. So, for first calculus, sets are no big issue.

Analytic Geometry: Here you study the conic sections. They are a bit amazing and important in physics, mechanical engineering, and more and something definite to work with while learning calculus. So, imagine a cone, say, an ice cream cone. Take two of them that are the same and put the points together so that they are both on the same axis through the points (I'll let you get a precise definition of axis). Now imagine a sharp sword, say, as in the old John Belushi Samurai Tailor skit and use the sword to slice the cones and look at the cut edges. Right, we assume that the sword moves in a plane. Depending on where you slice, you will get (A) just a point (where the two cones touch together), (B) two lines crossed as in an X (the cross in the X is at the point where the two cones come together), (C) a circle (we are awash in circles), (D) a parabola (to a fairly good approximation, a grand slam baseball follows a parabola), (E) an ellipse (to a quite good approximation, each planet goes around the sun in an ellipse), (E) the two parts of a hyperbola (an electron shot at a negative charge will follow one of the halves of a hyperbola as it avoids the negative charge).

First Calculus in a Nutshell: Then for first calculus, there are two big topics, differentiation and integration. Differentiation is finding rate of change, intuitively the slope (as in high school algebra) of a tangent line to the graph of a curve (defined in terms of a function with domain some or all of the real numbers). E.g., for time t, let d(t) be the function that gives us our distance from home at time t. Then the derivative of function d at time t is the velocity, say, function v, at time t. So, in a car, the odometer gives d and the speedometer gives v. That is, at time t we have traveled distance d(t) and are moving a velocity v(t). Here to be simple, I do not make a careful distinction between what physics calls speed versus velocity.

What differentiation does, integration reverses, undoes. So, we can use integration on function v to recover function d. We have now introduced the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Right, v is the function, and v(t) is its value at time t, but in first calculus it is common to drop the distinction between v and v(t) and just say "the function v(t)" and mostly avoid mentioning v by itself.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#209

Part I I have some opinions on the question in the OP: I'm heavily self-taught from independent study in math; that study helped me with, and at times was part of my good career in, applied math and computing before my Ph.D. in pure/applied math and helped a lot for my Ph.D. For a curriculum : (1) Do the standard high school math, Algebra I, Plane Geometry (based on proofs), Algebra II, Trigonometry, and Solid Geomet…

Part II

Again, for variable t, think

     "There is a number; call it t".
That approach to the meaning of a variable works well enough for essentially all of math.

Calculus was invented mostly by I. Newton, mostly for physics, especially for explaining the motions of the planets. Since then calculus has become a pillar of civilization, especially Western Civilization.

Mostly in calculus, integration is finding the area (or more carefully defining the area) under a curve, maybe a parabola.

But can also have a line integral, say, the work do when carrying 100 pounds of hay to the top of the hay loft of the barn. Here we integrate from beginning to end of the work. If we let the hay fall, then neglecting friction, etc. get the work back as energy. So, have to pay attention to the direction of the integration, from the ground up to the hay loft or from the hay loft back to the ground. The two values have opposite signs.

You can teach yourself calculus: Just get 1-4, at least one good calculus texts and dig in -- read the chapters, follow the material, work nearly all the more difficult exercises, and maybe check 1-4 times a year with a good mathematician. I did that for freshman college calculus (but didn't check with anyone). I never took the course and, instead, started on sophomore calculus and made As. No problem.

(3) Linear Algebra. Likely the next course would be linear algebra. It would be good to do this subject 2-4 times from more elementary treatments to some of the more advanced material. Some of the more advanced material can cover linear programming optimization, classic two person game theory, the proof of the Nash result in game theory, some treatments of the fast Fourier transform in digital signal processing, group representations in the quantum mechanics of molecular spectroscopy, error correcting codes in algebraic coding theory, numerical methods, and more.

The start of linear algebra is just one or several linear equations in one or several variables. E.g., for two equations in three variables, unknowns:

     2x + 3y - 6z = 0

     5x - 2y + 7z = 3
For positive integers (whole numbers) m and n, given m such linear equations in n variables (unknowns), the number of solutions, depending also on the numerical constants in the equations, is none, one, or infinitely many.

The main way to find all the solutions is just Gauss elimination.

That covers a good chunk of a first course in linear algebra.

The notation

     2x + 3y - 6z = 0

     5x - 2y + 7z = 3
gets to be clumsy so we write instead

     2 + 3 - 6

     5 - 2 + 7
write that with big, square brackets, and call it a matrix with two rows and three columns. The individual numbers are components. Of course, a matrix is conceptually close to an array with two subscripts common in programming languages. Maybe we call the matrix

     2 + 3 - 6

     5 - 2 + 7
A. Since matrix A has 2 rows and 3 columns, we say that it is 2 x 3 ("2 by 3").

Then we write the x, y, z in a column

     x

     y

     z
apply the big, square brackets, and call it a matrix with 3 rows and 1 column and maybe call it v. We write the right side

     0

     3
also with brackets, and maybe call it b.

Then we define a product, a matrix product Av so that

     Av = b
means just the same as

     2x + 3y - 6z = 0

     5x - 2y + 7z = 3
From then on we work with matrices and try to avoid notation like

     2x + 3y - 6z = 0

     5x - 2y + 7z = 3
In this way, a course in linear algebra is commonly called a course, Linear Algebra and Matrix Theory.

A matrix with just one column is a column vector; with just one row, a row vector. In short, either is called a vector.

Linearity: Given m x n matrices A and B, m x 1 matrices u, v, and real numbers c, d, we have that

     A(cu + dv) = cAu + dAv
Here we regard Au as case of function A with argument u. That is, we could have said that matrix A defines function f so that

     f(u) = Au
With

     cA + dA
we form products cA and dA and sums

     cA + dA
So, we have to define both of those: The definitions are close to just obvious.

The equation

     A(cu + dv) = cAu + dAv
means that matrix A acts like a linear function. Big deal! The real world is awash in linear behavior, and linearity is an enormously powerful property mathematically. The rest of linear algebra and matrix theory is nearly all about the consequences of such linearity.

The fundamental theorem of algebra is that each (high school style) polynomial in variable x can be uniquely factored into a product of terms of the form (ax + b) where the a and b are possibly complex numbers. Essentially from this fact, the more advanced parts of linear algebra use the complex numbers and not just the real numbers.

At the end of a second course in linear algebra, will pay attention to the essentially geometrical notions of length and angle and, in particular, to orthogonality, that is, perpendicular. Big topics are the Gram-Schmidt process where find some orthogonal vectors and the polar decomposition.

The polar decomposition result says that a matrix acting on a circle will yield an ellipse, that is, for matrix A and vector u, if we let u take on the values of all the points on a circle, then the Au will generate all the values of all the points on an ellipse. The ellipse has two axes, and they are mutually perpendicular. So, if have the vectors of the two axes, then have enough to construct the whole ellipse.

In linear algebra, this situation generalizes to any finite dimension and yields the singular value decomposition, principle components, factor analysis, and more.

With more advanced work, this situation becomes the spectral theory of self-adjoint linear operatiors central to quantum mechanics.

(4) The Four Main Parts of Math

There are four main parts of math:

(A) Foundations, that is, deep in the basement with set theory.

(B) Algebra, as in high school, the integers, prime numbers, the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, greatest common divisor and least common multiple, the fundamental theorem of algebra, linear algebra and matrix theory, the generalizations of number systems such as groups, rings, fields (the rational, real, and complex numbers are all fields but so is the set of integers modulo a prime number), etc. Fermat's last theorem, settled by A. Wiles, is part of algebra; so are the deep, difficult questions about prime numbers, etc. There are applications in error correcting codes and cryptography.

(C) Geometry, e.g., high school plane geometry, analytic geometry, and differential geometry, a deep subject important for relativity.

(D) Analysis, as in calculus, differential equations, functional analysis, e.g., Banach and Hilbert spaces, partial differential equations, e.g., as in Maxwell's equations, fluid flow, and relativity, probability, statistics, stochastic processes, optimization, and more.

In differential equations we are given an equation with the derivatives of some function and want to find the function.

E.g., for real valued function y(t) and constants k and b, we might have

     y'(t) = k y(t) (b - y(t))
where y'(t) = d/dt y(t), the first derivative of function y(t). At one time, that little differential equation saved FedEx from going out of business. The solution is a lazy S curve and a first cut at viral growth.

There is topology which is partly in geometry and analysis. The main idea of topology is continuity, that is, changing without sudden jumps or some cases of wildly fast oscillations.

There is algebraic geometry partly in algebra and geometry.

Much of number theory has deep connections with analysis.

Much of linear algebra is an introduction to functional analysis in analysis.

The older applied math is mostly analysis.

(5) Analysis. Usually after linear algebra will study advanced calculus and analysis. Broadly there are two approaches, (A) theory and (B) applications.

The theory is mostly to give fully careful proofs of the results and first generalizations of what you saw in calculus. For the theory maybe the most respected text is

R. Rudin, Principles of Mathematical Analysis, Third Edition.

For this, get the third edition and not either of the two earlier editions.

So, will discover that the integral learned in calculus is called the Riemann integral because B. Riemann made the theorems solid. Rudin also does the easy generalization to the Riemann-Stieltjes integral.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#210

Part I I have some opinions on the question in the OP: I'm heavily self-taught from independent study in math; that study helped me with, and at times was part of my good career in, applied math and computing before my Ph.D. in pure/applied math and helped a lot for my Ph.D. For a curriculum : (1) Do the standard high school math, Algebra I, Plane Geometry (based on proofs), Algebra II, Trigonometry, and Solid Geomet…

Part II Again, for variable t, think "There is a number; call it t". That approach to the meaning of a variable works well enough for essentially all of math. Calculus was invented mostly by I. Newton, mostly for physics, especially for explaining the motions of the planets. Since then calculus has become a pillar of civilization, especially Western Civilization. Mostly in calculus, integration is finding the area (o…

Part III

Rudin has a nice chapter on Fourier series, that is, representing a periodic function f(t) with a sum of e^(iwt) for overtones at frequencies w and where each frequency w is a whole number multiple of a fundamental frequency. The linear algebra and geometry here are that the e^(iwt) are perpendicular projections of the f(t). So, the e^(iwt) are orthogonal axes.

The line integral generalizes to the exterior calculus of differential forms (keep track of signs from the direction do the integrations, i.e., as in line integrals) and the fundamental theorem of calculus generalizes to Stokes theorem crucial in Maxwell's equations, fluid flow, and partial differential equations. Now we are close to differential geometry, and Rudin also does the inverse and implicit function theorems important in differential geometry and parts of nonlinear optimization, e.g., Lagrange multipliers.

I warmly suggest that take a really fun, one weekend, pass through Stokes theorem parts of

Tom M. Apostol, Mathematical Analysis: A Modern Approach to Advanced Calculus, Addison-Wesley, Reading, Massachusetts, 1957.

Get it used, and pay whatever you have to. This way get to see the 2-3 dimensional versions and, really, mostly enough for what physics and engineering do with vector analysis and Stokes theorem.

In H. Royden, Real Analysis and the first half of W. Rudin, Real and Complex Analysis, can see the Lebesgue integral, due to H. Lebesgue near 1900. In essentially all cases where the Riemann integral is defined, the Lebesgue integral is also defined and gives the same numerical value. But the Lebesgue integral has more powerful theorems and is defined in more general situations.

As in a 1933 paper of A. Kolmogorov, the Lebesgue integral gives a solid foundation to probability, statistics, and stochastic processes.

In W. Rudin, Functional Analysis get a treatment of distributions that cleans up what physics tries to do with the Dirac delta function and also covers spectral theory.

From there, can go for a Ph.D. For that will need mostly (A) pass the qualifying exams and (B) do some original research. The standards are commonly something like "an original contribution to knowledge worthy of publication" and for publication, "new, correct, and significant".

For the qualifying exams, first pick a department, pure/applied math or some math area in engineering, optimization, probability, economics, computer science, etc., get their description of their qualifying exam topics and references, study, and take and pass the exams. For the research, do some.

One suggestion: For the research, pick a real problem and use some math, at least in part new, to get a good solution. Can get "significant" from the importance of the real problem. Can get much of "new" if have the first or better attack on the real problem. Can get "correct" if do the math with careful theorems and proofs. Can publish if pick an appropriate journal. Might get to regard the math as significant based on what it does for the real problem and not just its contribution to pure math.

Even the best US grad schools are hungry for good students. With a good ugrad math major and good work on independent study, should get a good reception at grad schools and at least a tuition scholarship. In that way I got accepted to grad school at math departments at Cornell, Brown, Princeton, and more.

In a sense, independent study is recommended: (A) That is basically what research profs have to do for all their careers. (B) At least at one time the math department at Princeton stated that no courses were offered for preparation for the qualifying exams, students were expected to prepare for the exams on their own, courses were introductions to research by experts in their fields, and students should have some research underway in their first year.

For a little on how to do the original parts of math research, there is the A. Wiles comment:

"Perhaps I could best describe my experience of doing mathematics in terms of entering a dark mansion. You go into the first room and it's dark, completely dark. You stumble around, bumping into the furniture. Gradually, you learn where each piece of furniture is. And finally, after six months or so, you find the light switch and turn it on. Suddenly it's all illuminated and you can see exactly where you were. Then you go into the next dark room ...."

That's some of how to learn some math, largely with independent study, and maybe to get a Ph.D. But you might want more: You might want your Ph.D. work to get you a good start on a good career in pure/applied math research/applications. For that, look around, pick up what you can in seminars and conferences, and get what your profs can explain to you.

Broad point: Long the best opportunities in applied math, even with some advanced pure math prerequisites, have been in US national security, especially within 100 miles of the Washington Monument.

Post reply on HN