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Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

cityobservatory.org

41–50 of 78 posts

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#41
City Observatory is a publication that lobbies for urbanism. So you have to take that into context when considering their argument.

Their argument is not that removing roads doesn't reduce quality of life – their argument is that cities _adapt_ and that tearing away infrastructure for cars in favor of housing and "human-scale" neighborhoods won't necessarily result in doom and gloom.

Of course removing a highway will result in some temporary issues. But cities are living organisms and they can adapt. America is after all a free-market economy. If a road trip to a faraway store becomes inconvenient, a new store will open in due time. If it becomes impractical to drive around, neighborhoods will reconfigure to serve customers within walking distance. And if a hypothetical highway closing permanently were to cause single-car commutes to become impractical, companies will respond by moving offices, encouraging telework, and subsidizing public transit commutes.

We all think we need our cars, but somehow the majority of commuters in cities outside the United States manages to commute via public transit just fine.

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#42
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but as OP mentions, the article totally discounts any negative affects to QOL.

Explaining how changes to transportation patterns effect quality of life in general was way outside the scope of the article. It’s claim was limited and it argued it well: road closures don’t necessarily cause traffic congestion. It’s unclear if to me if less automobile throughput is a net positive or negative to quality of life, but that’s a separate discussion.

I don't think it is a separate discussion. King County's transportation district is extremely poorly run and cost overages are in the billions. The governing body is appointed and accountable to no one.

If people were given a realistic estimate of the costs, both financial and quality of life, I think there would have been a drastically different outcome.

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#43
post #40

Well, make people live not too far from their workplaces, schools, shopping, and recreational facilities. That's this stupid simple. I'd guess 80% of American gridlock is due to that not being done.

So, ah, who decides how to "make people live not too far from their workplaces, schools, shopping, and recreational facilities.", who enforces the law, and does anyone get grandfathered in?

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#45

> If Seattle can survive for a couple of weeks without a major chunk of its freeway system, that’s a powerful indication that more modest steps to alter road capacity don’t really mean the end of the world. That leaves out the fact that this is a three-week window that people know is temporary and have time to plan for. After the new year everyone goes to the gym and eats better. But nobody would think of saying "if…

I thought you were being obtuse when you used the phrase "a couple of weeks" but you read the article correctly:

> In a few weeks, much of this capacity will be replaced by a new 3 billion dollar highway tunnel under downtown Seattle

It's worded wrong. That tunnel won't be functional for years.

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#46
post #42
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explaining how changes to transportation patterns effect quality of life in general was way outside the scope of the article. It’s claim was limited and it argued it well: road closures don’t necessarily cause traffic congestion. It’s unclear if to me if less automobile throughput is a net positive or negative to quality of life, but that’s a separate discussion.

I don't think it is a separate discussion. King County's transportation district is extremely poorly run and cost overages are in the billions. The governing body is appointed and accountable to no one. If people were given a realistic estimate of the costs, both financial and quality of life, I think there would have been a drastically different outcome.

Which “transportation district” do you mean?

All of them I know of are run by people who have to stand for election so they are accountable to the voters who put them there.

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#47
post #45

> If Seattle can survive for a couple of weeks without a major chunk of its freeway system, that’s a powerful indication that more modest steps to alter road capacity don’t really mean the end of the world. That leaves out the fact that this is a three-week window that people know is temporary and have time to plan for. After the new year everyone goes to the gym and eats better. But nobody would think of saying "if…

I thought you were being obtuse when you used the phrase "a couple of weeks" but you read the article correctly: > In a few weeks, much of this capacity will be replaced by a new 3 billion dollar highway tunnel under downtown Seattle It's worded wrong. That tunnel won't be functional for years.

What do you mean? The tunnel opens next month: https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/tolling/sr-99-tunnel-tolling

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#48
post #43
post #40

Well, make people live not too far from their workplaces, schools, shopping, and recreational facilities. That's this stupid simple. I'd guess 80% of American gridlock is due to that not being done.

So, ah, who decides how to "make people live not too far from their workplaces, schools, shopping, and recreational facilities.", who enforces the law, and does anyone get grandfathered in?

Normally, urban development follows common sense without much aid from central planning.

What you see in US cities, is that central planning itself stands in way of common sense; that car centric lifestyle in USA was pretty much enforced from above.

Take a look on city plans from sixties, or watch some documentaries about that time

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#49
post #42
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explaining how changes to transportation patterns effect quality of life in general was way outside the scope of the article. It’s claim was limited and it argued it well: road closures don’t necessarily cause traffic congestion. It’s unclear if to me if less automobile throughput is a net positive or negative to quality of life, but that’s a separate discussion.

I don't think it is a separate discussion. King County's transportation district is extremely poorly run and cost overages are in the billions. The governing body is appointed and accountable to no one. If people were given a realistic estimate of the costs, both financial and quality of life, I think there would have been a drastically different outcome.

Are you talking about an outcome different than the replacement tunnel? What alternative do you have in mind?

Personally, I live in the South Sound and I would love alternatives that would allow me to visit the city without the hassle of bringing my car.

Re: Why Carmaggedon never comes – Seattle edition

#50

> If Seattle can survive for a couple of weeks without a major chunk of its freeway system, that’s a powerful indication that more modest steps to alter road capacity don’t really mean the end of the world. That leaves out the fact that this is a three-week window that people know is temporary and have time to plan for. After the new year everyone goes to the gym and eats better. But nobody would think of saying "if…

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