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Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

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Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on your background, you probably don't have enough information to pick a long-term goal anyway. I am afraid that sounds curmudgeonly, but I have also seen students shoot themselves in the foot because they decided they didn't need a class for their not very well informed goals.

>>Depending on your background, you probably don't have enough information to pick a long-term goal anyway. Nah, it's totally possible for newbies to pick high-level long-term goals. This can be something like "I want to teach my computer to tell apart dogs and cats", or "I want to create a website where people can buy and sell yarn." From there, Google searches can direct someone towards concepts and various methods…

The two of you are talking about different things. What forkandwait is talking about is the propensity for people with only an undergraduate education in math (or less) to not actually know what a worthwhile goal is. They usually either lack the mathematical maturity to intuit how difficult a particular problem is (whether it's tractable with available mathematics, whether it's tractable for their ability, etc); or they formulate problems which are "not even wrong."

Of course this is in the context of choosing research problems to strive towards in math. If you tasked yourself with solving an open problem in math, it's more likely than not that, without any collaboration, you'd have no idea how to even work towards the goal due to all the unknown unknowns. If your goal is something concrete that can be augmented with mathematics, then yes I agree that goal setting can be useful. It doesn't take a volume of missing domain knowledge to develop that kind of goal.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#162
post #38

Here's my personal opinion about how you should approach this. It's all well and good to want to cover undergraduate math courses. When you are actually enrolled in a university, you will have enough inertia and motivation to complete the courses. However, when you are self-studying you are doing it all on your own. It's hard to be as thorough and cover everything. And so I ask, what really is your goal here? You don…

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Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most engineers I know have not learned set theory or groups/rings/lattices. They still seem to be doing pretty well.

I am a scientist/engineer/mathematician who studied the hell out of abstract mathematics at an extremely rigorous undergrad program. In the 20 years since, not once has that knowledge been useful in my academic or industrial work, not even remotely. I am all for studying theory for its own sake, for the career theoretician and the interested hobbyist, but as an investment I regret those four years of my life as a col…

Math is not just a tool; it is an area of intellectual exploration. By the same logic studying history or philosophy is a colossal waste of time, too.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#164
post #151

This is really great. One specific point: > One idea I had was to complete the MIT open courseware courses for the Applied and Pure math fields A note about Open Courseware: they tend to be much of or all of the material handed out in a course (lecture notes, problem sets, etc). They aren't a "course" in the sense of Coursera, Khan Academy and the like. A few years ago I needed to brush up on my thermodynamics and wa…

Ah very good points, thanks for the heads up! I’ll think about this a bit more

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#165
What is the purpose of a proof? You may think that it's intended to solve a problem, but that's really only half the point. A good proof is one that communicates your solution to other people.

Mathematical writing is hard to learn well under the best of circumstances, but if you don't have someone else giving you feedback on whether they understand what you're writing, it's absolutely impossible. You need to have a mentor or at least an editor at some point. That's not impossible to find outside of the university system, but it's very difficult.

(This is the single biggest reason why MOOCs for higher math haven't taken off. There are a lot of people who'd love to communicate something about the field that they've dedicated their lives to, but the feedback system just doesn't scale. If anyone can figure out how to fix that, it'll be a game changer.)

So the first thing you have to do is to figure out what you can reasonably expect to get out of this process. You can learn the definitions and theorems of higher math, and that might be enough, but you're never going to develop an intuition for them without understanding how to produce proofs on your own. And don't fool yourself into thinking that you can evaluate your own proofs. It just doesn't work.

If all of that doesn't have you turned off, then here are some ideas on what to do.

A university level math curriculum is split into roughly three components: * Lower level classes that focus on basic definitions and calculations; * Mid level classes that teach some basic theorem-proving skills in subjects that are useful for people in other quantitative fields; * Upper level classes that offer serious practice in theorem-proving as well as the core ideas of mathematics. You don't generally have to do classes in any particular order, but you do have to master the skills of each level before you go on to the next one.

To begin, you must be very comfortable with the contents of a high school math curriculum. Serge Lang's book on basic mathematics is a great refresher if you're not, or you can use any of the various popular study guides (Schaum's, Barron's, etc.).

At the first level, you have calculus. This is generally split into three semesters, with the first dedicated to limits and derivatives of single-variable functions, one dedicated to integrals of single-variable functions as well as sequences and series, and the last dedicated to derivatives and integrals of multivariate functions. There are plenty of very expensive books with glossy page and many color pictures and few ideas, but if you want a serious introduction, look at Peter Lax's books on calculus.

At the second level you'll almost always find introductions to differential equations and linear algebra. Differential equations have historically been the workhorse of applied mathematics and you really need to have some familiarity with them, but I've never seen a book on the topic that I liked. I probably won't be satisfied by anything at this level, though, so look around and see if you can at least find something inexpensive.

Linear algebra is a more recent topic (with many of its key ideas actually originating in the 20th century), but it's probably actually more important now. Gilbert Strang's books are popular and are worth reading for a first look, but you really can't regard them as a serious introduction to the mathematical side of the topic. Axler is probably the best book in that regard, but it's best taken on a second pass.

I think that probability should be regarded as a core class at this level. I don't think that's a fringe view, but it's not as universal as I'd like. I learned from Pitman's book, and I think it's as good as any to start with.

You can also take classes on complex variables or "discrete math" here. I don't know what a good textbook for complex variables is--maybe Saff & Snider?--but I'm sure there are recommendations out there. Needham's "Visual Complex Analysis" is a fantastic book, but maybe not really suitable for a very first introduction. As for "discrete math" (a jumble of topics from logic, combinatorics and number theory), find the cheapest book you can get that has decent reviews on Amazon.

At the third level, there are three main topics: analysis, algebra and topology/geometry. You can think of these as the three main viewpoints in higher math, and other topics being populated by people who primarily look at things with the tools of one of those three topics.

Analysis starts out as the theory behind calculus. In a first course, you'll revisit a lot of what you saw in single-variable calculus, but you'll learn why it's true rather than just how to use it. For a single semester undergraduate course, Ken Binmore's book is probably the gentlest introduction.

Modern geometry is related to what you studied in high school, but with a few more centuries of development. It also doesn't get a lot of coverage at the undergraduate level, which is highly unfortunate. Stillwell's "The Four Pillars of Geometry" is a wonderful book and completely accessible.

Algebra is a bit difficult to explain without getting into the weeds. Pinter's "A Book of Abstract Algebra" is very good at motivating the topic and explaining the basics, which is the best you can hope for in an introductory textbook.

Beyond that but still at the undergraduate level, you can get electives in combinatorics (use Brualdi), number theory (?), logic (?) and some applied topics as well. Looking through the course offerings of various math departments will help you to fill in what the other possibilities are.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#166
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning math isn't really about memorizing things.

very true, in the sense that rote memorization is not the point. but false in the sense that doing math requires fluency - in applying a small amount of technique up to lower division math, and in applying a large number of definitions/results after that. in areas like abstract algebra, failing to memorize will kill you. it is as disfluent as writing text in a foreign language without having memorized the working voc…

I have to disagree, especially about abstract algebra. Most concepts and theorems feel like abstract nonsense (not specifically talking about category theory here) when you don’t understand them, but should become pretty natural once you do. For true mastery you need to work with the concepts and results on a day to day basis for a while, by applying them; continually reading the text of definitions and theorems hardly helps if at all.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP did specify what he wanted - the basic undergraduate and starting graduate curriculum. That's a pretty well defined area: Algebra, Real Analysis, Geometry and Topology with maybe some complex analysis, number theory, statistics, CS or etc thrown in. I personally did work myself up to the graduate in math during the last two years of High School & first year of college. I was motivated by exploring ideas and ga…

> I personally did work myself up to the graduate in math during the last two years of High School & first year of college. ...how in the world did you manage to do this? Did you actually self-study, or were you placed in a gifted program? Self-studying all of undergraduate mathematics is more impressive than actually studying all of it in a four year classroom setting. Doing so as a teenager is amazing. The most gif…

How in the world did you manage to do this? Did you actually self-study, or were you placed in a gifted program?

I read quite a bit on my own, I took some courses at UCLA through a high school scholars program (including the undergraduate honors seminar). The entirety of the undergraduate program might be a slight exaggeration but I was ready for graduate level courses when I got to Berkeley.

I think going through the material requires determination, not necessarily being extremely gifted. But then, it seems like people at someone's gone through a bunch material say by that fact they're gifted. Thus having done this, one is tautologically gifted.

I've never tested at the extremely gifted level but I'm doubtful of single-measures of intelligence regardless.

Edit:

I don't think your anecdote is a great comparison for the OP's expectations (or for calibrating advice they'd benefit from).

Neither of us know the OP. It's kind of up to them to calibrate what process works for them. Scanning a lot of math until I found good, clear explanations worked well for me.

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#169
post #105

SOME ADVICE BEFORE YOU DO A DEEP DIVE INTO WHATEVER YOU END UP STUDYING MATH-WISE: My Background: Current Undergraduate in CS and I recently added Mathematics The most difficult part for a person who hasn't done a lot of math to become a person who does a lot of math is to read and understand rigorous proofs. You will encounter countless difficult proofs in any mathematical topic you try to study. Read a few books on…

> The most difficult part for a person who hasn't done a lot of math to become a person who does a lot of math is to read and understand rigorous proofs.

I’m afraid you haven’t delved into any advanced topics. That’s actually about the easiest part, and could be mastered by ten year olds (certainly myself when I was ten).

Re: Ask HN: How to self-study mathematics from the undergrad through graduate level?

#170
I actually started from the very beginning of mathematics on Khan Academy, thats starting from pre-school going through every video and exercise, taking the quizzes and each end test for each subject. I am currently almost done with Algebra 1 and has taken longer than expected. I highly recommend! The exercises are key and do everyone until you get 100% then move on to the next topic/subject.
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