My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag • Hacker News Board

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#431

Post by zimablue » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

loktarogar wrote: post #327

zimablue wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already maintain a hierarchy of grief. If you found that a colleague was inconsolable because they'd snapped a nail, you'd judge them and respond differently than if their parent was dead. It's also not just based on how "normal" the grief is, there are plenty of very religious people who would be very upset at a relative being gay. The question "do we want to maintain a hierarchy of grief" is absurd, there is no…

Of course you maintain a heirarchy of grief, but it's your heirarchy - it's not a shared heirarchy where your loss of a close relationship is deigned less or greater than someone else's loss of a close relationship. Grief is grief. What's at the top of your list might not be the top of someone elses. You don't invalidate someone else's grief because yours ranks higher on your own list.

There are kind of three questions: 1. how much is this person suffering 2. is their suffering "justified" 3. is their suffering the cause of their own actions (who is at fault) I and the poster are leaning towards the second and third question. And it's not at all a purely individual opinion (except in the sense that all opinions are), there are cases when we need to adjudicate it as a group - how much compensation do you get when someone does X vs Y. How much of a crime is it to call someone X vs calling them Y, that's more offense/being upset but this argument is the same for all emotions.

It's just a silly attempt to sidestep the argument.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#432

Post by ataturk » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #76

defap wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. The walker kicks and whips the dog until it vomits blood and Wag offers a refund and a $100 credit as settlement. Who in the world wants Wag credits after an experience like that. If Wag wants to buy these folks’ silence, shouldn’t they at least make a non-insulting offer?

This is terrifying behavior both on part of the walker and Wag. I don't blame Wag for having occasionally sketchy immoral actors that don't care about animals--that's essentially impossible to entirely prevent, especially as they continue scaling. However, their responses to these issues are extremely concerning and do not indicate a company that's managed well.

You're starting to see what all these shitty tech companies have in common. None of them are about the subject matter or thing, they're about making fast money.

Who the hell beats up on a dog if they're a paid dog walker? WTF?

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#433

Post by kamaal » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

fanzhang wrote: post #66

The Streisand effect strikes again. This is what happens when the legal department has no customer empathy, and to these lawyers, everything is a nail to their hammer of a contract. Some people mentioned that Wag should have offered more and demanded less -- absolutely! But think about if Wag even said "sorry this happened, that's all we can say for your terrible loss" even without a compensation offer and without an…

>>I honestly believe Wag and Rover and other large companies that offer pet walking services should put up a very high liability bond for pet injury -- on the order of $10K or more.

I'm not sure how any of this helps with the empathy part. Remember malpractice insurance with doctors?

The real deal is these people will just offload their insurance costs to customers, and then extract whatever damages you are likely to pay from that insurance.

>>Most owners value their dogs above that

Personally I think, that kind of insurance charges are not unfair either. If you value your pets life above $10K, say max $50K, so lets you get to chose whatever you value it. Then a few hundred dollars in insurance is not a lot ask for.

People even take insurance for cars they rent. Because there are always, Just in case scenarios.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#434

Post by dbuder » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #227

thatoneuser wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand how little these gig apps pay. 1k deposit would exclude a very large percentage of the workers. And frankly - who in the hell in their right mind would PAY a company a grand so start working for them? That's sketchy af.

> who in the hell in their right mind would PAY a company a grand so start working for them? In order: A bond isn't paying them. It would ideally go to a reputable third party. Anyone that works for uber paid a whole lot more for that car, sometimes specifically for the job. Edit: Would the downvoter care to explain? I'm not even saying it's definitely a good idea, I'm just disagreeing with the particular arguments g…

The issue is if you're doing gig economy work, you are doing it because you don't have money, paying any significant amount to anyone would be such a large burden as to severely limit the number of available workers. Many Uber drivers rent their cars. You are probably being downvoted because you think who the money goes to is an important distinction.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#435

Post by ubermonkey » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

So, Wag is behaving appallingly here, but holy COW I would never trust this kind of effectively anonymous service with my pets. I'm fine hiring a rideshare, but for things that involve actual trust and stewardship of your precious personal items when you're not around, it's FAR FAR BETTER to find an actual human you can deal with consistently, and build a relationship with.

A somewhat lower-stakes (and older) version of this is hiring a cleaning/housekeeping service like Merry Maids instead of an actual human. Sure, maybe they're insured and bonded and have background checks and all that, but it still seems riskier to me than finding an actual human who does that work, and who comes recommended by a friend or colleague.

This is even more true of someone you'd trust your pets with.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#436

Post by michaelmrose » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #424

michaelmrose wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people only hire people with references how does one get references?

Through other trust paths. Start by caring for neighbours' pets, or family/friends, anyone that already knows you. Ask them for tips, guidance (aka "education"). Show them you care and want to expand your services (aka "networking"). Then ask them for references (aka "certification").

This seems like a lot to ask for something that pays substantially less than McDonalds.

Kind of feels like someone should be able to give non dog walking references to walk your dog. Like if people regularly trust their children with person foo person foo can probably be trusted with pets?

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#437

Post by old_but_gold » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

Can't believe you naive people who put your trust in apps and these types of services. The responsibility is entirely yours. You have to understand what responsibility means.

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#438

Post by iamnotadogowner » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

Dogs are not people, people who have dogs have a responsibility... it annoys me, as it does with children when it comes to teachers and daycare, that abdication of this responsibility is largely monetary and comes with little consideration. You cannot tell me that an app is the only way out of these things. Try any number of normal human situations like paying a friend or neighbor you trust.

The dogs should be looked after, but you should also not be exploiting people who are worse off than yourself, for your own personal, convenient, cheap abdication of responsibility.

(If you can't pay a friend or neighbor, possibly you are asking too much for too little)

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#439

Post by hessproject » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 3:10 PM UTC

I stopped using Wag due to their terrible customer service. I had an incident where a walker, despite explicit instructions, did not put my young puppy (~6 months) back in her crate and left her free in the apartment unsupervised. The walker report card said "I saw you said to crate her but she looked thirsty so I left her out!".

I called several times where they said "we tried to contact the walker but couldn't so we can't help you". So I had to leave work early and still came home to a torn up couch and plenty of chewed up plastic that had to be surgically removed by a vet. Wag compensated for this by trying to offer me a "5 dollar credit for your next walk!"

Re: My dog was killed on a walk with a walker ordered through Wag

#440

Post by e40 » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

nicky0 wrote: post #265

gnicholas wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author wrote the post because of the company's post-accident behavior, not because there was an accident. His point is that Wag isn't sharing information about what happened, or what parties are involved. Without this information, the author is completely helpless. And the only way to get anything from Wag is to pre-emptively forego all recourse, including sharing his story. This is the primary focus — not on the…

Can't object to that. My point was more in response to the following sub-discussion which had become a blame-assigning process.

That's what is so fishy about all of this. And, my comment was immediately downvoted, then got upvoted a bunch.