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DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

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Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#171

Post by aboutruby »

ben509 wrote: post #117
anonymfus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its more like a unique identifier AFAIK they are not ever unique

They're not reliably unique: a nontrivial percentage of the population has multiple numbers associated with them, and a nontrivial percentage of the numbers are associated with multiple people. If you have two systems and you want to correlate data between them, you can use something like the SSN to assist in that process, but usually it will need additional information. Generally you can't use something someone supp…

> In the peak year of 1943, 5,755 people were using Hilda's number.

https://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/misused.html

There are actually lots of dummy SSNs that are used by a lot of people (including illegal workers).

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#172

Post by wahern »

zorga wrote: post #135
all_blue_chucks wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overheard conversations between strangers, for example, are fair game. Wrong. It's insider trading if you have material, nonpublic information. It doesn't matter how you got that information.

Absolutely not. > It doesn't matter how you got that information. Yes it does, if I didn't do anything illegal to acquire it, and I have no obligation to the company, I can use it legally, I'm not an insider.

Not quite. If you knowingly acquired the information from an insider and the insider himself would be liable for your trade (e.g. you're a friend or family member), then you could have derivative liability.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#173

Post by runeks »

aqme28 wrote: post #9
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - so they're not released while the markets are open.

Just curious -- why does that matter? In either case there's a single moment wherein people can trade on it. Why is it better for that moment to be at 9:30 instead of say noon?

> Why is it better for that moment to be at 9:30 instead of say noon?

Because the market opens with an auction, giving everyone time to retrieve the information, digest it, and place their orders. Whereas, if the market is already open, whoever's closest to the source of information, and the exchange, has an advantage.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#174

Post by runeks »

rocqua wrote: post #168
crumpets wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is mostly to ensure people keep trading. In a world were inside-info is commonplace, trading without it is just stupid. I find this line of reasoning hard to swallow. As an individual I have significantly less info than hedge funds and other professionals but that doesn't change the fact that I want to buy Apple or whatever because I think it will grow over the next 5 years. Now if you add in the scenario where…

It is not so much about the retail investors as it is about the professionals. Most of the market is determined by them, in a world without them, prices will less accurately reflect the 'true value' of stocks. As such, we want to keep them trading. We also kind of want to dis-incentivize the professional traders from engaging in massive corporate espionage. Just because that is an arms-race that isn't very productive…

You keep saying "we" -- who are you speaking for?

Your argument that professional traders would stop trading in unison if insider trading laws were abolished seems entirely unconvincing to me.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#175

Post by ataturk »

bobthepanda wrote: post #61
gtirloni wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean they rely solely on someone dictating a SSN number? That's insane. They should ask for a official ID with photo, as the very minimum. Is that something that goes against the American culture? The other day I had to give all 10 fingerprints to renew my driver's license (location: South America) and nobody seemed to care.

America historically was not very federalized, and being able to just abandon your life and move out west is a key part of the country's mythology, if not the DNA of the country. So there have always been attempts to resist a national ID system, and the SSN was originally not supposed to be used for this purpose. Of course in 2019 this is basically a moot point if you want to be integrated into society, but even then…

I didn't have an SSN until my early teens ( sometime in the 1980s) because it wasn't required for my parents to claim me on their taxes until then. The IRS fucked us, as usual.

I was a free American for a decent amount of my life.

The constant drumbeat of more and more big government only ever ends in mass death.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#176

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Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#177

Post by bjelkeman-again »

richardw wrote: post #146
TheOperator wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its primarily a religious problem why do countries less religious than the US have similar concepts? SINs in Canada, NINs in the UK, etc. etc

ID number in South Africa. Assigned at birth, used for opening of any account. Not considered private at all, can be requested by any company who might want to check that you are you. Also: ID card with number, photo and details on it, separate from drivers license.

More or less the same in Sweden.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#178

Post by zeveb »

The fact that the SEC can't secure this sort of information is an excellent argument against key escrow and government backdoors into crypto systems: it's completely impossible to prevent leakage or theft of that sort of incredibly-valuable information.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#179

Post by kurtisc »

toweringgoat wrote: post #88
TheOperator wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its primarily a religious problem why do countries less religious than the US have similar concepts? SINs in Canada, NINs in the UK, etc. etc

NIN is rarely used in the UK. You need one for student financing... and later for your employer to correctly relay your taxes to HMRC. Certainly it's not needed for banks/credit cards/phones/brokerages/etc.

The last time I opened a bank account in the UK involved me sitting in a bank employee's office with two forms of proof of identity and proof of income. I could have used my birth certificate for one but AFAIK the second would cost money.

Re: DOJ: Hackers broke into an SEC database and made millions from inside info

#180

Post by tetrep »

darkpuma wrote: post #161
rando444 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with identity in the USA has always been a religious problem more than anything else. All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric. As religion has less of an impact on people's daily lives, I expect this to change, but in the past it's been the one thing t…

> "All legislation aimed around allowing people to be identified by numbers has been killed due to the whole "mark of the beast" .. "can't buy sell or trade without your number" revelations rhetoric." This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously. Define a narrow use-case for it, narrow enough to allay religious fears, and forbid anything other use if the ID number. Ma…

> This is easy to solve; simply make it illegal to use the identification number so capriciously.

Hmmmmm, that sounds familiar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number#/media/...

While it wasn't law, I don't see why legislature wouldn't renege on their promise to not use a unique identifier, already conveniently assigned to all people, for identification purposes.

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