What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist • Hacker News Board

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#91

Post by drb91 » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

futureastronaut wrote: post #65

xenihn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dated a high-functioning borderline as well. It was a horrible experience, but in retrospect I'm (kind of) grateful to have learned about personality disorders as a result. I guess I learned a lot about myself too. I feel absolutely awful for people who date high-functioning borderlines and never learn about it. At least with the ones who are low-functioning, you absolutely know something is deeply wrong with them…

People generally don't write glowing reviews of their exes, so forgive my skepticism of your and parent's anecdotes.

Maybe you just need to know better people.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#92

Post by xenihn » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 6:02 AM UTC

zozbot123 wrote: post #89

xenihn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dated a high-functioning borderline as well. It was a horrible experience, but in retrospect I'm (kind of) grateful to have learned about personality disorders as a result. I guess I learned a lot about myself too. I feel absolutely awful for people who date high-functioning borderlines and never learn about it. At least with the ones who are low-functioning, you absolutely know something is deeply wrong with them…

> I feel absolutely awful for people who date high-functioning borderlines and never learn about it. ... I really do think there needs to be more general awareness about Cluster B personality disorders. But people are increasingly aware of it. The "creepy abuser" (male) and the "crazy chick" (female) are stereotypes for a reason, and both of these seem to closely match Cluster B. More specifically, people are also be…

Right, everyone knows the stereotypes, but not everyone knows that there's an identifiable condition behind it, with signs and patterns that are identifiable and uniform, as well as support for victims.

>More specifically, people are also becoming aware of Cluster B's associated dysfunctional thought patterns, and how to mitigate those, or at least how to effectively counter e.g. the gaslighting, unprovoked outbursts/tantrums, fanciful accusations, etc. that result from such thought patterns.

I also like to think that this is true, but I still don't think awareness is spreading as fast as it should be. We'll get there, though, right?

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#93

Post by krageon » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

MarsAscendant wrote: post #67

jondubois wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the vast majority of people (narcissist or not) will never do something unless they personally benefit from it in some way. Everything that people do is for themselves. Even when people give money to charity; they do it because it makes them feel good. I think that maybe the difference between a narcissist and an altruist is that a narcissist doesn't derive any positive emotions from helping others.

Oh, but bullshit. Comparing altruism to narcissism is so entirely self-centered, it fails to encompass the sheer idea of the fact that people do things for other people that bear no benefit to themselves. And don't even start the whole "But you feel good about it" line. Do I feel accomplished from writing a supportive message? Not particularly. I wrote it because I saw it a good thing to do, because I'm that kind of…

The thought that self-development leads to altruism and that questioning the source of said altruism (and it's potentially selfish roots, I make no claim about that here) is reductive (or perhaps even a bit ridiculous, if you'll allow me to read between the lines) doesn't seem to me to be something that is really a given.

The only real arguments you've given to counter this are that it's bullshit and that you're just that kind of person. Not terribly convincing in any real sense, if that is what you were going for.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#94

Post by MarsAscendant » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

krageon wrote: post #93

MarsAscendant wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, but bullshit. Comparing altruism to narcissism is so entirely self-centered, it fails to encompass the sheer idea of the fact that people do things for other people that bear no benefit to themselves. And don't even start the whole "But you feel good about it" line. Do I feel accomplished from writing a supportive message? Not particularly. I wrote it because I saw it a good thing to do, because I'm that kind of…

The thought that self-development leads to altruism and that questioning the source of said altruism (and it's potentially selfish roots, I make no claim about that here) is reductive (or perhaps even a bit ridiculous, if you'll allow me to read between the lines) doesn't seem to me to be something that is really a given. The only real arguments you've given to counter this are that it's bullshit and that you're just…

I wasn't aiming to convince anyone. Sometimes, I find calling something out as bullshit important enough to speak up, even if I have nothing else.

For what it's worth, I'm not buying that altruism is just another conduit for the good feels. It can be frustrating, it can be exhausting, it can seem pointless at times because you seemingly make no difference, and it can make you give up for a while.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not denying that altruism is about the person committed to it, to some degree. What I'm denying is that it's about some kind of personal gain, in the same way narcissistic supply is.

There's this idea of projects of immortality that people commit to in their lives, to escape physical death by becoming culturally immortal through the change they'd effected. Ernest Becker wrote about it in his book, The Denial of Death. The higher purpose, the meaning of life... We're all very much about that – self-actualization – as long as we don't have to just survive.

I find it difficult to accept that this kind of effect is entirely selfish and is based entirely in self-satisfaction.

> The thought that self-development leads to altruism

I've never claimed that. What I did claim is that one may be dissatisfied with the prospect of helping others out of a natural impulse if they're convinced it's selfish – and, therefore, promoting altruism as selfish is a negative consequence, rather than a matter of self-knowledge, as the parent commenter seemed to have posited.

It's "reductive" in a sense that it reduces a complex, interconnected system of personality to a basic matter of whether we feel good about something. It makes things seem far simpler than they are. If it were that simple, psychotherapy wouldn't need to exist.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#95

Post by BerislavLopac » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

I was glad to see that the article explicitly mentions introvert narcissists (or "covert", as they're sometimes referred to).

> But the form in which narcissism can present itself also varies, says Malkin. While most people are familiar with what Malkin calls the “extroverted narcissist” — the braggadocious chest-thumpers — there are also introverted narcissists, whose sense of specialness may derive more from a sense of victimhood than superiority. “These are people who … might feel special because of their emotional pain,” says Malkin. “They agree with statements like ‘I feel I’m temperamentally different from most people,’ or ‘I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.’” (Malkin says this form comes up a lot in teenagers.) Because these narcissists aren’t so showy, or grandiose, they often fly under the radar.

I've spent five years in a very difficult relationship, and only when someone pointed me to the direction of narcissism I was able to understand what is going on. The other person check pretty much all of the boxes describing a covert narcissist, and only after understanding what I'm dealing with I was able to look for the right form of therapy (for myself) and finally leave the relationship nearly a year later.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#96

Post by gerbilly » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

DigiMortal wrote: post #86

gerbilly wrote: post #37

I had to disentangle myself from a friend who was a narcissist. Looking back it feels like I was his 'sidekick'. I was one of his sources of narcissistic supply. He thought he was improving me, helping me with my 'problems', like I was his project. This went on for years before his personality became sufficiently extreme that I couldn't ignore it any more. It was a very difficult time, and it was surprisingly hard to…

Hey - I was recently in a similar situation. Friend of 8 years, roommate, etc. His arrogance, narcissism, having to be right about every single little thing (impossible to be wrong), built so much toxicity I could not take it anymore. I had to cut him out of my life, it was so toxic to me as a person. I'm about three months out from it. I feel better. I feel less anxiety, he isn't stressing me, etc. Now I can better…

It's been a long time so I'm ok, thanks for asking.

People who haven't been in that kind of relationship can't really know what it's like.

You really do have to sever all ties with a person like that. You can't be in 50%, they demand all of you and more.

It sounds like you did the right thing.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#97

Post by throwaway987909 » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #83

throwaway987909 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in recovery for BPD. I did a shit load of emotional damage to my family because of it. My BPD stems from childhood abandonment (absent father) and persistent emotional abuse from my likely NPD mother. I learned to doubt things I feel/thought and often reality sometimes. Real love and emotion connection were terrifying to me on a subconscious level. I never could trust anyone, not even myself (the only one to trus…

> he has to be on board I'll always love my brother but, for this reason, I'd need to see proof that he's doing what you are. My brother has taught me that forgiveness does not imply a return to the previous status quo: we have our own, our spouses' and our childrens' mental health to protect. I wish the best for you and patching up things with your family; I'm sure that they all still love you and want nothing more…

It's a hard decision to cut family off but sometimes it's necessary. I gave my mother an ultimatum a few years back, either hear what I'm saying and deal with your shit or I can't talk to you anymore. She chose the later. Going through the same process now with my dad. Yet to see where that's going. But you must defend yourself first. If others are causing tons of harm and totally unwilling to hear you and work on things, there's no shame in disconnecting. You don't owe anyone anything because they are blood.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#98

Post by rrggrr » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #46

rrggrr wrote: post #16

Its worth noting that the line between Aspergers (which I probably misspelled) and NPD can be blurred, particularly in women. Similarly, egocentrism, generalized anxiety disorder, NPD share features. This matters because empathy and patience is an effective strategy for engaging with those suffering from most of these disorders... but not NPD unless you're trained to do so.

Can you tell me more about this? I think I'm facing this situation - it increasingly feels some kind of half-ASD, half-NPD that makes my domestic life less than ideal.

The best explanation I can provide is one that won't provide you much immediate info or relief. You and your partner would want to see a psychologist or PsyD, preferably with both a clinical and diagnostic background for counseling. At some point if your partner is NPD you're going to be made aware of it. Everything until that point will have been the easy part.

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#99

Post by DigiMortal » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 3:51 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #96

DigiMortal wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey - I was recently in a similar situation. Friend of 8 years, roommate, etc. His arrogance, narcissism, having to be right about every single little thing (impossible to be wrong), built so much toxicity I could not take it anymore. I had to cut him out of my life, it was so toxic to me as a person. I'm about three months out from it. I feel better. I feel less anxiety, he isn't stressing me, etc. Now I can better…

It's been a long time so I'm ok, thanks for asking. People who haven't been in that kind of relationship can't really know what it's like. You really do have to sever all ties with a person like that. You can't be in 50%, they demand all of you and more. It sounds like you did the right thing.

Yup, came to the conclusion it has to be severed ties. And I really look for the best in people too

What helped me was when my best friend growing up committed suicide a few months ago, when I was home I kept thinking how amazing a person he was, how nice, how pure and caring....

Then I thought about this person I was spending all my time with, the opposite kind of person. It made me sad to lose someone so good, I decided I would cut that other person out because they were so bad. IF that makes sense...

Re: What It’s Like to Be a Diagnosed Narcissist

#100

Post by krageon » Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

MarsAscendant wrote: post #94

krageon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thought that self-development leads to altruism and that questioning the source of said altruism (and it's potentially selfish roots, I make no claim about that here) is reductive (or perhaps even a bit ridiculous, if you'll allow me to read between the lines) doesn't seem to me to be something that is really a given. The only real arguments you've given to counter this are that it's bullshit and that you're just…

I wasn't aiming to convince anyone. Sometimes, I find calling something out as bullshit important enough to speak up, even if I have nothing else. For what it's worth, I'm not buying that altruism is just another conduit for the good feels. It can be frustrating, it can be exhausting, it can seem pointless at times because you seemingly make no difference, and it can make you give up for a while. Don't get me wrong:…

> I find it difficult to accept that this kind of effect is entirely selfish and is based entirely in self-satisfaction.

I can't see it as anything but fundamentally egocentric, I'm afraid. What is wanting something of yourself to persist after you die except for a fundamentally self-serving goal? It speaks of a desire to have people remember you (hopefully even commend you) for what is basically the eternity after you live.

> It's "reductive" in a sense that it reduces a complex, interconnected system of personality to a basic matter of whether we feel good about something.

I agree that being reductive isn't always the best approach. But it does have it's place - with so many people doing what is essentially virtue signaling it can be valuable to remember what the primary driver for behavior like that is. Perhaps it really isn't like that for you, and that's great.

If the goal is not to convince me that that is the case, then why talk about it at all? Is it just so I can remember that this is also a thing that people say?

Your point on psychotherapy seems to be to be a bit of a tangent. To wit, most of the time the problems and the way you solve them are indeed fairly simple. It's just a matter of picking one of the choices you already know you have and sticking with it. Making choices can be difficult, but not because following through on them is necessarily very complicated. I am purposely excluding big outliers from this, because that's where it might actually be complex (and also because I don't know enough about them to really say anything useful).