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'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

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Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#61

Post by strommen »

anewguy9000 wrote: post #11

so after 5 years the battery in my laptop is just toast. can anyone comment on what happens to an electric car after 5 years? 10, 20? i have a truck with 350,000 kms on it. will this still be possible?

The battery in a Nissan LEAF is warranteed to retain 75% of its capacity for 8 years, 160,000 km. So there's a good chance you'd be on a 2nd battery, considering a 3rd at your stage.

But on the upside, there's virtually none of the other engine maintenance that is required of combustion-run vehicles.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#62

Post by ip26 »

sjwright wrote: post #58
ip26 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... Although now I'm reminded of the bit I read recently that noted in thirty minutes a two-stroke leaf blower emits as much CO & NOx pollution as driving an F-150 3,800 miles. https://www.citylab.com/life/2016/11/the-case-against-neighb...

Possibly, as two stroke burns oil intentionally. But the actual volume of carbon dioxide emissions is a function of the volume of fuel consumed. A small handheld tool won’t use much fuel compared to the (napkin math) 500 liters of petroleum in the vehicle.

Yeah, this is still momentous news. As with targeting gas-guzzlers twenty years ago, it's not eco-sexy like a 100MPG Prius, but the F-150 model probably produces more carbon dioxide than any other passenger vehicle in the US, maybe in the world.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#63

Post by _underfl0w_ »

Rapzid wrote: post #57
ghettoimp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a truck? (If so that's just fine. But I'm in Texas, and I'm pretty sure most of these folks could get by on something smaller...)

In Texas, can confirm. It's also crazy how much they spend on them. Pretty much a second mortgage for a lot of people based on income.. Can fit a lot in my hatchback and would just do what they do in New Zealand on the odd occasion I need more; rent a truck or van for the day.

Also in Texas, can also confirm.

My coworker dropped the phrase "Texas Cadillac" the other day. Couldn't cringe hard enough.

I hope to be able to afford an electric car for my next car purchase - for now, just a tiny Mazda stick-shift.

Kinda having second thoughts after reading that comment about battery production though...

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#64

Post by Rapzid »

notatoad wrote: post #46
abrowne wrote: post #3

They're going to make all-electric (and hybrid) options. What the headline first made me think was that the whole lineup would be all (=only) electric.

yeah, "we're going to make the F-series all electric" and "we're going to make an all-electric F-series truck" are very different headlines.

It may be because they view the F-series as a platform. So they are adding "all-electric" as a feature to the F-series platform. Along with hybrid.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#65

Post by avalys »

strommen wrote: post #60
justinph wrote: post #4

I'd love to see them try. The difficulty of making a pickup truck aerodynamically efficient are substantial.

I don't see this as much of a problem. Drag coefficient on a Dodge Ram is 0.357; on a Prius it's 0.29. That's less than a 25% penalty on efficiency.

Drag coefficient is a misleading and meaningless statistic to compare, which is probably exactly why manufacturers use it.

The total drag of a vehicle is given by its total frontal area, multiplied by the drag coefficient. And fuel economy is determined by total drag.

The Ram has a much larger frontal area than the Prius, so it would have substantially worse efficiency even if the coefficients of drag were equal.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#66

Post by graycat »

azhenley wrote: post #38
ghettoimp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a truck? (If so that's just fine. But I'm in Texas, and I'm pretty sure most of these folks could get by on something smaller...)

Not the OP, but I've recently had several similar discussions with friends/family about trucks when I bought my Tesla. I live in Tennessee, a popular truck area. They claimed to like trucks for the convenience. Being able to throw stuff in the back and not have to think about whether it will fit in a car. While I do understand this advantage, it would only help me 2-3 times a year, and I aim to optimize for the 95% o…

I like light trucks because they are for people who plow snow, carry bricks, lumber, cinder blocks, lawn mowing equipment, hogs, chickens, bails of hay, etc. in all weather over all roads and even no roads. E.g., there is good ground clearance for charging through snow, over rough ground, jumping curbs, etc. The suspensions are stiff, rugged, and long lasting, can take bad bumps and keep going with no damage.

The light trucks have BUMPERS that actually work; so, can bump into something, push another truck, maybe by accident hit a deer some night, all with little or no damage. With no bumpers, lots of little bumps would need $1000+ for body repairs.

So, as a result, light trucks are functional, rugged, and comparatively simple and easy to maintain. I.e., light trucks get rid of the nonsense luxury stuff I don't need, can't use, don't like, don't want, don't want to pay more for when I buy, and most of all don't want the cost and Excedrin headache #498,293,991 of maintenance.

These trucks are much the same year after year, aren't "all new", and, thus, have a lot of the bugs, design errors, bad corrosion problems, and bad part kinks worked out. As soon as a seller claims "all new" I'll have to conclude the seller had a lot of problems with their models for the last several years and walk out saying "Maybe I'll see you again in 10 years.". "All new" may be good for Paris fashions, but I don't want it in a vehicle.

These trucks have solid rear axles, usually with stiff leaf springs -- that is, RUGGED with no problems with alignment, weak bushings, etc.

I like Ford and Chevy because they are made with parts readily available, from Ford, Chevy, or third parties, all over the US at relatively low prices now and for decades into the future, use English wrench sizes, and are well understood by a huge fraction of US mechanics.

My next vehicle will be a light truck from Ford or Chevy even though I will rarely make good use of the bed in the back.

For a vehicle I want a solid, mechanical tool, functional, rugged, durable, easy to maintain. As soon as a seller mentions luxury, I'm gone. Yup, like Jay Leno, I like blue jeans, too.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#68

Post by rconti »

Multicomp wrote: post #56
cowmix wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2013 Volt has 85K EV miles (100K total).. Zero battery degradation.

I'm glad for you, but 100k is like the starting point for 'how long a car can last' at least here in Atlanta GA. "Junky" cars manage to die at 100-150k, good cars get 150-200, and 200+ is preferred. 350k is a very different number than 85k. Alternate example: NYC Taxicabs used to be that Crown Victoria, and each vehicle could get upwards of 400-500k before being replaced. Will the Ford Escape EV replacement also get…

Parent didn't say they had a Volt with a dead battery, they said they have a Volt still going strong, with no signs of failing. It's just a single data point.

As for your taxi example, it's like you haven't even looked. I've been seeing stories of hybrid battery taxi longevity for over a decade.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/highest-mileage-new-york...

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1063767_ford-hybrids-pr...

https://www.hybridcars.com/taxis-show-hybrid-battery-durabil...

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#69

Post by StillBored »

make3 wrote: post #28
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #14

This is a big deal. The F-Series is the single most popular vehicle in the US, and nearly 900K of them are sold every year! In fact, the top 3 models in the US are F-Series, Silverado, and Ram, so the environment will definitely appreciate the electrified competition the F-Series will force.

I can't believe that pickups are the three most sold models in the US. That's really insane. https://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-and-trucks...

I started driving a truck 15 years ago after a number of sports cars/sedans/etc. I will never go back.

Its not insane when you consider any number of factors, starting with the fact that Americans are BIG. As a large person myself (although not overweight), I'm here to tell you that what a 120 pound 5'6" person finds comfortable frequently is painful for me.

Second, I spend upwards of 2+ hours a day sitting my my car, spending a couple grand extra a year for a seat that is 6" wider, doesn't require me to have the flexibility of a 15 year old doing a deep knee bend every-time I get in/out of my car, and allows me to sit upright rather than tilting the seat back into the second row is well worth it.

Third, while there are some SUV's and maybe minivans that qualify on the comfort front, they either tend to be less efficient, cost more, or have social stigma associated with them.

Sure if I had two vehicles, I might be able to get away with driving the truck on the weekend or when I actually need it, but the convenience of being able to throw a bike, kayak, lawn mower, TV, piece of plywood/drywall/2x4/etc in the back when I need to is worth it. Plus, I tow something maybe once a year, but again, if you only have 1 vehicle.. The two vehicle argument might make more sense, if there was space and insurance/taxes/etc were per person rather than per vehicle.

Finally, part of the problem is the American car market. Sedan seems to frequently translate to econobox. In Europe a basic car is smaller, but somehow frequently seems to have far more leg and headroom than a similar American car. This space problem seems to extend from the econoboxes in the US to the luxury car market as well. Apparently in the US, taking an econobox, putting leather and a bigger engine in while leaving the chassis/etc the same (or streamlining it and making it even smaller as honda/acura seems to do) is common. The result is that if your bigger than average, you likely don't fit in something that isn't a SUV/Truck.

Re: 'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says

#70

Post by sdinsn »

anewguy9000 wrote: post #11

so after 5 years the battery in my laptop is just toast. can anyone comment on what happens to an electric car after 5 years? 10, 20? i have a truck with 350,000 kms on it. will this still be possible?

The question you should be asking is: what the maintenance cost of electric vehicles compared to normal gas vehicles over a long period of time?
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