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MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

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Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#161

Post by latk »

dankohn1 wrote: post #14
avar wrote: post #4

It looks like it is, but is there any official word that the SSPL is proprietary? As far as I know MongoDB claims it isn't, and it hasn't been reviewed officially by either the FSF or the OSI. Is it in license purgatory?

Bruce Perens feels “it manifests a lot of ignorance about Open Source and utter contempt for our community.” https://opensource.org/LicenseReview122018

That Perens quote refers specifically to Sunil Deshpande's article about the SSPL and Open Source, not to the SSPL itself. But it's not far off either way…

The reaction on the OSI's license-review list is more varied. Lawrence Rosen and Ken Mitchell argue that the license should be approved. Everyone else is criticizing that it clearly violates the spirit of Open Source software (no discrimination against fields of endeavour!), and that the license is too broad and too vague in the critical section (Rosen agrees with the latter part). Carlo Piana points out that the goal of the license seems to be to create so much legal uncertainty that any serious user would be forced to buy a proprietary license from MongoDB.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#162

Post by gigatexal »

gigatexal wrote: post #42
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

But RHEL is not free. So... can’t this be included then only used after the user sets up a license?

Yeah free software but you need to purchase a support agreement is what I was getting at. In any case you could get around this by just running it in a container, no?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#163

Post by outworlder »

threeseed wrote: post #120
Twirrim wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pick a mature database software, learn to use it properly, and just get on with life? Why would you risk _anything_ to immature databases?d

It's a 9 year old database. Can you be more specific about what makes it immature ?

Compared to some other databases out there, MongoDB is a baby. These others... are not even born.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#164

Post by brianwawok »

Twirrim wrote: post #95
xellisx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had hopes for MongoDB back 10 years ago, but it just let me down. I'm thinking of trying out ArangoDB next. OrientDB is just riddled with bug and their docs are lack luster.

Why not pick a mature database software, learn to use it properly, and just get on with life? Why would you risk _anything_ to immature databases?d

Exactly. What is the super secret use case that a DB that might shut down in 3 years give you, over the tried and true?

Postgres is great, mysql works... You really need to exhaust them before you go to random.db.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#165

Post by zachruss92 »

I'm not super surprised that RHEL removed Mongo because of the licensing change. I don't completely understand why people getting upset about the licensing, however.

As far as I know, MongoDB is still open source. If you are a hosting provider offering "MongoDB as a Service" the provider then needs to pay a licensing fee to Mongo. This seems ok to me, with the logic that MongoDB is a business that needs to make money.

I am not an expert in licensing, but how is this any different than paying for a license of RHEL vs using CentOS? I'm genuinely curious as to how this is against open source beliefs.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#166

Post by zymhan »

threeseed wrote: post #120
Twirrim wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pick a mature database software, learn to use it properly, and just get on with life? Why would you risk _anything_ to immature databases?d

It's a 9 year old database. Can you be more specific about what makes it immature ?

9 years _is_ immature when you're talking about systems that will store data and operate for decades, with various components being upgraded over that time.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#167

Post by FireBeyond »

antt wrote: post #138
merlynn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael from MongoDB here... Greed? You realize that anyone can still view, download, use, develop, modify and do everything they could do prior to the change - right? The only difference is that if they decide to offer the licensed software as a public service they must release the other components of the service under the same license.

>It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. I'd say I'm surprised that some people are attacking your license, which overall forces providers to increase user freedom, but I remember the 90s and 00s when the GPL/AGPL was being attacked as a non-free (as in freedom) license - "How can it respect freedom when it FORCES me to release my source code?" The…

Because such things are "necessary" when it provides benefit: access to software/CC stock photography/imagery/fonts.

And less so when it impinges on the ability to make profit from it (leaving aside the argument about "no-one says you can't make money from open source software" - of course you can, but the business model is a little less... convenient... so they fault the license, not anything else).

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#168

Post by karolist »

MongoDB is a strange company. I've downloaded their Compass software to visualise some throwaway JSON I had loaded in Mongo, gave my real email and here's the emails I was sent before I blocked their marketing account (allegedly someone named Alena)

day 0 "Regarding your interest in MongoDB"

day +1 "Alena with MongoDB in reply to your interest"

day +3 "Alena with MongoDB making sure you're all set"

day +7 "Alena from MongoDB reaching out"

day +10 "Checking in from MongoDB"

At which point I was completely speechless about this dumb spammy marketing attempt and just blocked the sender. Really guys?

"I want to touch base with you again to see if we could provide you with additional information regarding our enterprise edition of MongoDB that you downloaded.

Are you available to set up a call to learn more?"

What the hell is that I never downloaded "enterprise MongoDB", it was Compass.

I will never use anything from MongoDB, thanks Alena.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#169

Post by pahool »

StreamBright wrote: post #124
xellisx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had hopes for MongoDB back 10 years ago, but it just let me down. I'm thinking of trying out ArangoDB next. OrientDB is just riddled with bug and their docs are lack luster.

I only migrated companies away from it. I prefer reliable data stores. Postgres + Riak always got my back, 15years, 8 years in production respectively.

Isn't riak dead?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#170

Post by [deleted] »

zachruss92 wrote: post #165

I'm not super surprised that RHEL removed Mongo because of the licensing change. I don't completely understand why people getting upset about the licensing, however. As far as I know, MongoDB is still open source. If you are a hosting provider offering "MongoDB as a Service" the provider then needs to pay a licensing fee to Mongo. This seems ok to me, with the logic that MongoDB is a business that needs to make money…

[deleted]
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