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Airbnb and security camera disclosure

jeffreybigham.com

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Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#211

Post by alexhutcheson »

philip1209 wrote: post #171
munchbunny wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if AirBnB's hosts and guests are bearing the externalities that should be priced into the transaction on both sides... For hosts, property damage, etc. is a matter of when, not if, and for those things you get insurance. But as far as I know that's not a standard thing for hosts. Pricing in hidden hosting costs would make hosting look less profitable up front, then AirBnB's market would shrink. For gue…

As a short-term tenant who isn't eligible for property insurance, there is no way for me insure against losses. I spent considerable time trying to get a policy after our burglary, and it wasn't possible. In my opinion, providing this insurance should be handled by the marketplace. The problem is that Airbnb stays are similar to airline flight delays - the cost of a problem can result in many times more costs than ju…

Depending on your policy, your homeowners insurance or renters insurance (at your long-term home) may cover you for theft from hotels, Airbnbs, etc. If yours doesn't, you could shop around for one that does.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#212

Post by dhimes »

rickyc091 wrote: post #176
philip1209 wrote: post #120

I've lived in Airbnbs full-time for about 18 months while traveling, and Airbnb has lost my trust repeatedly in terms of reliability, safety, and user-friendliness. - Host listing quality has gone consistently downhill. Now, it's many slumlords just trying to make a quick buck rather than support the original community idea or provide a great stay. - Airbnb support response times are horribly slow. They hide their ph…

I'll add to this as well. I've had two incidents over the past year. 1. I rented a place and was told that I could check-in whenever. When I got there, the key wasn't available and I wasn't able to contact the host. I was essentially just standing around for three hours waiting for Airbnb to respond. Apparently, you can contact them, but it's extremely difficult to call them if you're international unless you want to…

Their response was that I should have contacted them immediately... but they don't make it easy to contact them.

Companies like this should be left to die.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#213

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

philip1209 wrote: post #120

I've lived in Airbnbs full-time for about 18 months while traveling, and Airbnb has lost my trust repeatedly in terms of reliability, safety, and user-friendliness. - Host listing quality has gone consistently downhill. Now, it's many slumlords just trying to make a quick buck rather than support the original community idea or provide a great stay. - Airbnb support response times are horribly slow. They hide their ph…

Not sure about recently, but I’ve had the opposite experience living in Airbnb’s three months at a time when I was in between my startup and current job.

My two hosts were very friendly, and I got on great with them.

My first host would throw weekly dinner parties, cooking fresh organic food with vegetables she grew in her garden. When I was sick she would bring me breakfast in bed. Indeed, this woman was a wonderful human being.

My second host I would hang out with on an almost daily basis, we became really good friends. Hockey games, getting smashed on the weekdays, and other such fun times. I’ve kept in touch with both.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#214

Post by plusbryan »

To add some background to the discussion: As a host, you are asked to check a box entitled "Surveillance or recording devices on property". If you check it, it asks you to "Describe any device that records or sends video, audio, or still images. Specify each device’s location and whether it will be on or off."

As this is a text box, it is up to the host to accurately describe things like location of device, viewable area, on/off/recording status, and if there is a microphone. There is also no structured way to specify if the recording device is posted outside (ie a driveway, facing away from the property for security) vs inside the rented space.

Finally, they link hosts to their policy here, which specifies (among other things) that cameras that record guests are fine if disclosed, provided they aren't in bedrooms or bathrooms: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/887/what-are-airbnb-s-ru...

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#215

Post by dhimes »

philip1209 wrote: post #145
bfirsh wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience to your last one. I was in a small house fire in a shared Airbnb. I left immediately. Airbnb wouldn’t compensate me because I didn’t take photos and the host claimed nothing had happened. (I was honestly too shaken to even think I would need evidence.) They gave me a $200 voucher which didn’t cover the time left in my stay. It is partially my fault for not getting evidence, but you’d think…

The trouble is that, if you use any buyer protections available to you outside of the platform, you risk being banned for life. That to me seems unfair. For your case where they wanted evidence - what would have happened if you had no evidence, and ended up issuing a chargeback for "Services not provided? You would have been in the right, but probably would have been banned for life from Airbnb's system. The lack of…

if you use any buyer protections available to you outside of the platform, you risk being banned for life

Could you elaborate a bit on this? I've not used airbnb but have a trip coming up and am reading this thread with great interest.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#216

Post by elif »

koverda wrote: post #160
elif wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Spain and got an airbnb which did not have sheets for the beds or towels. The host, who was in another country on holiday, had me walk down the street and meet her mother, who didn't speak english. Her mother gave me a musty top-sheet that seemed to have been in a closet for over a decade, and asked me to pay her 5 euros in cash for it. This whole process took about 2 hours. Still didn't get a towel.. should…

Could you link to this Miami AirBnB? Sounds interesting.

Thankfully it appears to have subsequently been shut down.

http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/5165144

I don't want to dox whoever lives there now, but it was just north of the convention center on Pine Tree Drive

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#217

Post by timc3 »

resters wrote: post #203

This blog post is not true and not fair. Airbnb specifies that there must be textual disclosure of any cameras, and there is a section on the listing page that shows them. It's also very rare for a security system to include indoor cameras. My own uses motion detectors to provide information about climate control and lighting needs, but absolutely no interior cameras. It's not clear to me that the object in the pictu…

I don’t think its rare at all if its a managed security system. Ours came with cameras that are only on when the alarm is on.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#218

Post by Retra »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #196
tezzer wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples of such negative consequences, regulations for problems that went away (that became inconvenient after the fact), or dangerous and abusive regulations? Your objection sounds dogmatic, but if it's founded I'd love to hear on what.

I submit as evidence a) pretty much every case where a "may issue" permit is required to engage in business (these mostly happen on the state and local level and incentivize corruption). b) Regulatory capture (e.g. the current FCC). c) The war on drugs (I can come up with other examples of unnecessarily criminalizing things if needed). And on the other side, the movies/music/video games/tv rating system sure isn't pe…

"Regulating whenever something bad happens" is problematic, but it's a bit of a straw man. You should be regulating wherever people are incentivized to do bad things, which happens quite often when you don't offer any oversight whatsoever. Especially when you are unwilling to even regulate the reporting of misbehavior.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#219

Post by plusbryan »

sendshot wrote: post #110
eric_b wrote: post #9

I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of…

AirBnB's aren't that great, just another service that has already been refined. In hotels you might not be getting what you pay for, but at least there is a level of consistency for major chains. In AirBnB's you're left to the wims of the household that sets you up for the night or week. If the place doesn't have something, most of the time you're not going to call the home owners, but a hotel you have no problem cal…

Downsides aside, one thing that AirBnB as a service provides over hotels is heterogeneity of location. Especially remote, suburban, or certain urban neighborhood locations will always be underserved by hotels, while still being desirable to potential guests.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#220

Post by timc3 »

mscasts wrote: post #195
7Z7 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general privacy law seem to work under the "expectation of privacy", which is why you see signs warning of security cameras or monitors showing what they see. In a rented room scenario, you obviously have an expectation of privacy up until someone tells you explicitly that there are cameras in the space, at which point I guess you can decide whether or not you want to stay there. So in this case (and depending on…

Well in Sweden (which is where I live), at least one case I know of where I man video taped him having sex with women in his apartment didn't get any repercussions for it since it's perfectly legal to film someone in your own home without them knowing about it. It is illegal however, to share that film without consent or video tape outside the apartment. You can video tape with your camera moving around in a public s…

I think they changed the law a year or so ago so that would now be illegal.
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