Airbnb and security camera disclosure • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#191

Post by magnetic » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #167

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. A few years ago all our AirBnB experiences were good, but over time they have progressively got worse. For example, one host housed us in what felt like a derelict hotel/doshouse with all sorts of weird people staying and no working locks or fire alarm. On another occasion we booked a cottage, but it had a blocked chimney and was spewing fumes and smoke in to the living area. And for our tenth wedding anni…

It's hard to trust reviews when it's engineered the way it is. You're almost forced to leave a good review or else you'll get a bad review in return. People also don't like feeling guilty and transactions have been made personal. People do the same damn thing with ridesharing, really bad drivers somehow get 5 star ratings.

Every time I've used Airbnb, the review process would prevent one party from seeing the other party's review until either the review period ended OR all parties would have posted a review.

In other words, you can't retaliate because of the other party's review: you don't get to see it until you post your own review.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#192

Post by baby » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

trumped wrote: post #65

Maybe airbnb renters should be required to post clearly labeled snapshots of what each camera sees in their listings... a bit like this: https://i.imgur.com/Fg9R0D6.png

they should be forbidden to have cameras inside the house, period.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#193

Post by matte_black » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

philip1209 wrote: post #145

bfirsh wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience to your last one. I was in a small house fire in a shared Airbnb. I left immediately. Airbnb wouldn’t compensate me because I didn’t take photos and the host claimed nothing had happened. (I was honestly too shaken to even think I would need evidence.) They gave me a $200 voucher which didn’t cover the time left in my stay. It is partially my fault for not getting evidence, but you’d think…

The trouble is that, if you use any buyer protections available to you outside of the platform, you risk being banned for life. That to me seems unfair. For your case where they wanted evidence - what would have happened if you had no evidence, and ended up issuing a chargeback for "Services not provided? You would have been in the right, but probably would have been banned for life from Airbnb's system. The lack of…

There’s always ways to get around being banned.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#194

Post by plusbryan » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #91

jploh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have two properties listed on Airbnb and have been a "superhost" for half a year. Our listing has extra fees if there are more than 2 people booking and there have been a number of instances where guests would sneak in extra people. We got a security camera for one of our listings recently. It's an attached suite with a private entrance. The camera is installed outside and it's disclosed with a check box toggled i…

Actually don't you want to highlight the disclosure of the camera to dissuade trouble makers from picking your place?

I don't think most people think it through that well. I once had a guest stay in our attached guest house where we live and try to sneak in a dog (explicitly not allowed).

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#195

Post by mscasts » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

7Z7 wrote: post #6

mscasts wrote: post #2

That is kind of creepy indeed. In my country you are allowed to video tape inside your own home and I assume that right extends even if you rent it out temporarily. I guess far from every host does this, I would even say it's probably very rare. But maybe there is a reason to stay in a hotel after all ;)

In general privacy law seem to work under the "expectation of privacy", which is why you see signs warning of security cameras or monitors showing what they see. In a rented room scenario, you obviously have an expectation of privacy up until someone tells you explicitly that there are cameras in the space, at which point I guess you can decide whether or not you want to stay there. So in this case (and depending on…

Well in Sweden (which is where I live), at least one case I know of where I man video taped him having sex with women in his apartment didn't get any repercussions for it since it's perfectly legal to film someone in your own home without them knowing about it.

It is illegal however, to share that film without consent or video tape outside the apartment. You can video tape with your camera moving around in a public space without permission, but same here you cannot share it online or something like that.

I agree with these rulings and I think it should indeed be legal to video tape inside your own home. It's very illogical if that wasn't the case.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#196

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

tezzer wrote: post #150

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully disagree. I view regulation like opioid painkillers. Sometimes they're necessary to solve a problem. Sometimes the problem is temporary. If a society gives them out at the drop of a hat there will be negative consequences far and wide. Regulation is dangerous and is very easy to abuse but it performs a necessary function in society. We need to be careful not to over-prescribe it though because every regulatio…

Do you have any examples of such negative consequences, regulations for problems that went away (that became inconvenient after the fact), or dangerous and abusive regulations? Your objection sounds dogmatic, but if it's founded I'd love to hear on what.

I submit as evidence

a) pretty much every case where a "may issue" permit is required to engage in business (these mostly happen on the state and local level and incentivize corruption).

b) Regulatory capture (e.g. the current FCC).

c) The war on drugs (I can come up with other examples of unnecessarily criminalizing things if needed).

And on the other side, the movies/music/video games/tv rating system sure isn't perfect but it's a great example of an industry coming up with a solution that doesn't involve regulation. Various other professional organizations (ones that are not given special protection via legislation, i.e. not doctors and lawyers) are also good examples. The AWS comes to mind as a pretty good one.

Legislation is hard to get right and harder to change and I'd rather only use it when other options have been exhausted (e.g. I support making ISPs utilities and a public option for healthcare).

Personally I find the knee jerk reaction to legislate whenever anything bad happens quite dogmatic.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#197

Post by mscasts » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #7

mscasts wrote: post #2

That is kind of creepy indeed. In my country you are allowed to video tape inside your own home and I assume that right extends even if you rent it out temporarily. I guess far from every host does this, I would even say it's probably very rare. But maybe there is a reason to stay in a hotel after all ;)

If you're in the EU it does not. You can record anything you want in the privacy of your home but if you record other people, they need to consent to it. The reasoning described in the article "but there's a camera in the picture of the room so you agreed to it" certainly wouldn't hold up under any interpretation of the GDPR. Also even if it's your home, if you rent it out, that's a commercial activity even if it's y…

I live in the EU (Sweden) and here it's definately legal to record a video of someone in your own apartment. With or without their consent.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#198

Post by pocketstar » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #188

philip1209 wrote: post #120

I've lived in Airbnbs full-time for about 18 months while traveling, and Airbnb has lost my trust repeatedly in terms of reliability, safety, and user-friendliness. - Host listing quality has gone consistently downhill. Now, it's many slumlords just trying to make a quick buck rather than support the original community idea or provide a great stay. - Airbnb support response times are horribly slow. They hide their ph…

I find that the only scenario that Airbnb still comes in handy for is when you want to book a large place for a group of 8 people or more to stay together.

vrbo.com works for renting large places too.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#199

Post by mancerayder » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

When you read about the litany of issues that guests have, as evidenced here in these comments, does anyone have better experience with competitors like HomeAway?

If not it's a gap in the market. For example, for delivery services in the States you have Seamless, which is like an AirBNB or Uber for restaurants for delivery (I think only recently Seamless offers delivery people, but before it was the restaurants that have to provide). But there's now Caviar, which a) provides excellent customer-first customer service b) curates the restaurants carefully c) provides their own drivers with meticulous tracking and of course, the kicker d) costs more.

I would pay for better customer service and proper curation. Yes, even if it costs the same or MORE than a hotel, I prefer to stay in an apartment when I travel. I've definitely had a few surprises in AirBNB, but I've had a lot of delightful stays too with top-notch customer service provided by the host. But it's a crapshoot! I'll pay more for it not to be a crapshoot. The ratings system is a joke in my experience. Fine, take away the ratings and let me pay you more, future Silicon Valley company, for your people to verify the apartment meets standards and to be available on the phone 24/7 with onshore staff. I'll pay.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#200

Post by matz1 » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #180

matz1 wrote: post #31

I just assume that there will be camera constantly recording when I stay in airbnb, or anywhere really. They way I never have to worry about whether it exist or not. As recording technology becoming more and more advance, it's less and less reasonable to expect privacy. I rather adapt my life to fit this new culture.

I'm no privacy nut, but I'd rather not have too many strangers making videos of my sexual activity. What would you do, hide under the covers? Make the room as dark as possible? Or just let people record your sexual activity and simply not worry about any videos that may be floating around out there?

I rather simply not worry about any videos that may be floating around out there.