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De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

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Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#91

Post by Octoth0rpe »

geophile wrote: post #51
zitterbewegung wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t recommend system 76 all they are doing is putting Linux on a Clevo. You would be much better off with a dell laptop.

What’s wrong with clevo? I’ve heard bad things about dell quality. And wasn’t impressed with the dells I’ve owned, although that was years ago.

> I’ve heard bad things about dell quality.

The thing I'd say about Dell is that they're like Ikea in that they produce a wide variety of products at a wide variety of price points. High end Dells (XPS, Precision) IME have good to excellent quality. Lower end dells (inspiron) have mediocre quality as pretty good prices. If you're paying very little for a dell, don't expect it to last. If you're paying a lot for your Dell, it _will_ last. I'm still using a 10yo precision tower and everything about it is great.

13" dell xps w/ Ubuntu would be on the list of Dells that I would trust to be of high quality.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#92

Post by Octoth0rpe »

dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I love the keyboard, and I've had to repeatedly blow mine out with air to unstick keys. So, I get why people are mad (low reliability), but I'm definitely happy with the actual feel of it.

Re: touch bar, I suppose it really depends on what apps people use. Finder, Calendar.app, Mail.app, iTunes all work really nicely with the touchbar. It provides negative value to someone who isn't using an app that supports it unfortunately.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#93

Post by dkhenry »

rdoherty wrote: post #67
TomVDB wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 2 days ago, I spent 2 hours researching alternatives for my mid-2012 MBPr 15 and had settled on an X1 Carbon as well. How's the trackpad? How's sleep mode if you use it with Linux? I'm still on the fence, but I ordered an iFixit battery replacement kit for the MBP. After almost 7 years (!), it still has everything I need except for the fact that it randomly shuts down when the battery is at 60%...

I've had an X1 Carbon for a few months, coming from a 2015 MBP. Track pad is pretty bad compared to a MacBook. Everything else is very good. I got the high res screen too and it is comparable to a retina display IMHO. I've installed Ubuntu 18 with 0 problems. Sleep works fine, haven't had any issues with wake up. You do need to install some custom software and change a BIOS setting for it to use 'Linux' sleep mode (o…

If you update the firmware on your X1 you won't need the custom software any more. That was on an old version of the BIOS, the new one has a single setting for linux that makes everything work on a stock distro.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#94

Post by mintone »

munk-a wrote: post #33
snowwrestler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some luxury cars play engine noise through the speakers: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15117726/faking-it-en...

Reading through that it looks like sometimes the sound is directed inward at the cabin and other times the speaker is in the engine itself... that latter setup is just so considerate to us pedestrians who love to hear people tear their engines out on short downtown blocks - thanks VW! /s

I worked with a company that conducted some of the research that led to this - a major problem with electric cars at the moment is that pedestrians use the sound of cars to a) register them in the first place and b) judge when the car will arrive (speed).

If a conventional vehicle is coming around a corner you can hear it, anticipate its imminent arrival and act accordingly (especially important on country roads without a pedestrian sidewalk) whereas with an electric car the pedestrian receives no such audible warning. So yes, the engine noise is a consideration specifically for pedestrians.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#95

Post by dkonofalski »

eslaught wrote: post #30
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

That's even more interesting because I recently had to use a 2010 MacBook Pro keyboard for a week and felt like those keys were a lot "spongier" than the keys on the new MacBook Pro that I have. I much prefer the newer one.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#96

Post by dkonofalski »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #92
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I love the keyboard, and I've had to repeatedly blow mine out with air to unstick keys. So, I get why people are mad (low reliability), but I'm definitely happy with the actual feel of it. Re: touch bar, I suppose it really depends on what apps people use. Finder, Calendar.app, Mail.app, iTunes all work really nicely with the touchbar. It provides negative value to someone who isn't using an app that supports it unfo…

Agreed on the TouchBar but I use BetterTouchTool to alleviate the problem with any non-supported apps. BTT really makes the TB super useful in a lot of ways.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#97

Post by dkonofalski »

S_A_P wrote: post #62
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

Ive the 2018 i9 MacBook Pro. "upgraded" to this from a 2014 model. Not only is the keyboard not as terrible as claimed its many times worse. I have few words to describe how terrible it is. I use an external keyboard whenever I can. Anyone who uses f9/f10/f11 regularly soon realizes how bad the Touch Bar is for development. When I debug I rest my finger on the f10 key to step through the code. NO CAN DO on a Touch Ba…

I'm just shocked that my experience is so different. I use a mechanical keyboard too when I'm at a desk but I would do that with any laptop, regardless of its keyboard. I'm specifically talking about using the MacBooks keyboard compared to the keyboard on other laptops and I much prefer the MacBook keyboard.

I'm also a dev but I'm on the other side. I think it's ridiculous that devs continue to rely on function keys to do that kind of thing. Not only do you have to remember what the F9/F10/F11 keys do for each IDE but it's not consistent in any way between IDEs so you're kinda stuck. I much prefer the Touch Bar, especially where it's actually supported by the IDE, and, where it's not, I'm using Better Touch Tool to set it up exactly how I want it. Now I have dedicated buttons for each of those things that show up in context or that stay at all times, if I choose.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#98

Post by dkonofalski »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #38
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed I haven't met you in person, but I will tell you that it's even worse. I have a supply of cans of compressed air at home to clean out my MacBook Pro's keyboard on a regular basis lest the keys get stuck. I have never had to do this with any of my previous Mac laptops over the past 17 years.

I have never had to do this with the current MacBook keyboards so I'm at a loss as to what you all are doing to get so much crap under the keys...

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#99

Post by dkonofalski »

throwawaymath wrote: post #37
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I'm in the same boat. I prefer mechanical keyboards and have a small hobby collection of them. But I like my 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard and have never had a problem with it. Maybe people who don't have problems with the keyboards don't talk about them as much?

This has to be the case. I just polled 2 separate offices informally and there's not a single person that said they have complaints about it, even about the volume of the keys, in a sample size of 30+ people.

FWIW, I also prefer a mechanical keyboard but that's not specific to my MacBooks. I prefer to them to any laptop keyboard or normal keyboard out there.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#100

Post by wwweston »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #5
geophile wrote: post #2

I've owned MBPs for over ten years. But my mid-2015 15" MBP ("peak MBP") is giving out, and I need a replacement. It won't be another MBP, because of the keyboard regressions -- the butterfly keyboard, and the touchbar. Thinking about a System 76 Galago.

I felt the same, but I went with a Surface Book 2 instead, I love this thing. Pretty sweet keyboard and I can get as Unix friendly as I need to with MobaXterm (use it for X forwarding) and WSL. I have an ASUS Laptop with Linux on it for my pure Linux itch and I still got a Macbook Air. I was ticket off that the Macbook came back and the Air looks more like a Macbook than the Macbook, they should swap names (I've said…

So... I've also been looking for the exits from the Mac, and have been trying the WSL route (I've got a 13" XPS that I'm experimenting with) and while the mac hasn't been a super smooth experience building from source for a while, WSL just seems all kinds of wonky. For example, previous to a recent update, Postgresql wouldn't build from source at all, and then after the update it would build successfully but quickly crash out on IO errors that I don't recognize.

I don't understand how people are having experiences with WSL that'd lead them to believe it's comparable with Macs. What's the secret sauce? Is one of the "distributions" better than another?

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