Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#291

Post by dpark » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #272

dpark wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Have a fingerprint or PIN or whatever. Totally reasonable. Mugger takes your phone in a rush, can’t unlock it later, sells it for $10 to someone who’ll gut it for the pieces. Sucks, but not as bad as the mugger also emptying your bank account. But my response is to the belief that a security factor that cannot be directly taken by force is somehow more secure. If you’re guarding The Football, sure. You might ac…

The way around that complicates things - validation of circumstances and parties outside the sphere of power can avoid it. Anyone trying to force a withdrawal from someone's account at gunpoint at a bank itself would just be robbing the bank itself. Which being federally insured means robbing the federal government by force of arms. Which draws a heavy response from any sort of government. I have noted that spiteful…

I don’t see how any of this is relevant to the topic of muggers.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#292

Post by hopler » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 4:01 AM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #246

ColanR wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And along those lines, I've heard that DNA tests aren't reliable either.

Apropos of this, but about human incompetency rather than DNA tests, the Phantom of Heilbronn. A serial killer so well concealed that her very existence was only given away by DNA traces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn

Your Wikipedia link says that the Phantom is a myth and the DNA was contamination from the kit factory.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#293

Post by m-p-3 » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #108

I doubt this will hold up. You can be compelled by a court to have your blood withdrawn if a warrant is issued while you're under suspicion of DUI. Why would it not be similarly allowable to have your finger placed on the unlock button? Testimonial privilege (against being forced to testify) is about not being made to say / speak statements against your own prosecution. Speech. Testimony. Having evidence taken is not…

And also, the problem with biometrics is that they're not passwords, they're usernames.

It's by no mean secret, although somewhat unique to the individual.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#294

Post by EliRivers » Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

hopler wrote: post #292

EliRivers wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apropos of this, but about human incompetency rather than DNA tests, the Phantom of Heilbronn. A serial killer so well concealed that her very existence was only given away by DNA traces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn

Your Wikipedia link says that the Phantom is a myth and the DNA was contamination from the kit factory.

Yes it does, good reading skills. That's the point. Human incompetency, related to DNA forensics.

I didn't outright say that, though; the idea was that I would prepare you for a story of a serial killer so well concealed that her existence could only be inferred from trace DNA, but THEN there's the surprise twist - there is no serial killer, it's a trick of human incompetency. BOOM!

The twist has a much greater effect because I didn't give it away at the start, but the twist also ties back in to my original statement about human incompetency - but NOT where you may have been expecting, and subverted expectations are a key part of surprise twists - and the story is also about DNA forensics. That's the previous subject again, the reader having been led around in an interesting and surprising circle.