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MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

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Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#91
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had hopes for MongoDB back 10 years ago, but it just let me down. I'm thinking of trying out ArangoDB next. OrientDB is just riddled with bug and their docs are lack luster.

I'd suggest to try the latest FoundationDB MongoDB layer. I would definitely do that if I had a use case.

Does it offer relationships handling? That's the big downfall of MongoDB for me.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the upstream vendor that issues fixes. What RedHat does is that it takes the commits that fix the bug and merge them into their forks and release.

> It is the upstream vendor that issues fixes. So if you have a bug in a RedHat package, and you're paying $100k a year RedHat support contract, all they really do is open a GH issue with the upstream to ask them to fix it? And then you just wait hoping they fix it so RedHat can cherry pick it?

Backporting fixes (and fixes ONLY, not new features, and new bugs, with new incompatabilities) onto an older version of software that comes in RHEL is not trivial.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#93
I am really torn about this news. On one hand MongoDB's change of license is a clear attempt to discriminate against a set of users, so it is clearly non-free. On the other hand I know it is really difficult to make a sustainable business by developing an opensource product, especially since there are companies (like Amazon) who will take successful opensource projects and offer them as a service, or simply offer a compatible service (which is what Amazon did now). Discriminating against such uses doesn't seem wrong to me since they clearly harm the creators and maintainers in their effort to actually make some income from the project.

There is a really limited set of options for opensource companies and I have yet to see an opensource product that would bring their creators enough money to sustain it on aything else than their goodwill. RedHat doesn't count, because they packaged other people's opensource and sold the package to enterprise. They did contribute back and even started and maintained some of the projects (which makes them "good guys" in my eyes), but any other opensource project will have difficulties replicating that success.

EDIT: I would really appreciate discussion instead of (down)votes.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#94
post #29

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

If the new MongoDB licence is non-free, the chances that Debian will include that software in their repos are nil.

I think Debian would keep it around, probably, but it'll be punted out of the main repos and in to the ones designated for non-free software. Impact on the end user will likely be minimal. They'll still be able to apt-get install it as before.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#95
post #32

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

I had hopes for MongoDB back 10 years ago, but it just let me down. I'm thinking of trying out ArangoDB next. OrientDB is just riddled with bug and their docs are lack luster.

Why not pick a mature database software, learn to use it properly, and just get on with life? Why would you risk _anything_ to immature databases?d

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#97
post #16

This seems like a non-issue to me...? The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list. I'm a debian user, but their redhat installation instructions are similar: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-... I guess it will be a small speed bump for people experimenting their first time, but I've never had an…

> The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list. Going with the maintainer's repo means that you trust the maintainer with providing security updates for the version you have installed or you trust them with providing a useable upgrade path. If you go with a distro package, you will get both the benefits of security updates…

Yeah but the point is, from a practical standpoint, nothing has changed. You were doing that before if you were using MongoDB + RHEL, so you'll still be doing that now.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#98
post #95
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had hopes for MongoDB back 10 years ago, but it just let me down. I'm thinking of trying out ArangoDB next. OrientDB is just riddled with bug and their docs are lack luster.

Why not pick a mature database software, learn to use it properly, and just get on with life? Why would you risk _anything_ to immature databases?d

For S&Gs.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#99
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does seem against the spirit of freedom 2. » The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html But it seems strange to even think that Red Hat would do anything that violates the idea of free software. Surely there must be about angle to it that we have not considered?

They don't want you redistributing something called Redhat Enterprise Linux after you backdoor it?

How's that any different from: compiling from source with malicious modifications and then branding the resulting binaries with "RedHat"?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#100
post #56
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose" (freedom 0) You can't run it using closed source management software to offer MongoDB as a service.

By that logic the GPL is also non-free, since you can't run a GPL program embedded in a closed-source management program.

Yes, you can. You have obligations if you distribute it. Even the AGPL simply gives you obligations.

There have been arguments about whether the AGPL is discriminatory, and those have been mostly waved away (wrongly, i think, but c'est la vie).

In that vein, SSPL is arguably a free license. It simply changes when obligations to distribute source occur.

Compare to the the commons clause, which is not a free license - it says you have no right to sell the software as a service at all.

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