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MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

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Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#41

Post by mcny »

bubblethink wrote: post #28
ergo14 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? It's so non-free that you have CentOS.

Yes, but as a customer of RH, you are not allowed to distribute RH's binaries, or they will terminate your contract. That is also against the spirit of the GPL, although not necessarily the letter. You can take the source, remove the branding, recompile, and redistribute, which is similar to what CentOS does/used to. However, the GPL allows the former too. i.e., You can straight up distribute the binaries under GPL.

Yes, it does seem against the spirit of freedom 2.

» The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

But it seems strange to even think that Red Hat would do anything that violates the idea of free software. Surely there must be about angle to it that we have not considered?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#42

Post by gigatexal »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

But RHEL is not free. So... can’t this be included then only used after the user sets up a license?

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#43

Post by withhighprod »

dankohn1 wrote: post #14
avar wrote: post #4

It looks like it is, but is there any official word that the SSPL is proprietary? As far as I know MongoDB claims it isn't, and it hasn't been reviewed officially by either the FSF or the OSI. Is it in license purgatory?

Bruce Perens feels “it manifests a lot of ignorance about Open Source and utter contempt for our community.” https://opensource.org/LicenseReview122018

Yea without such ignorance, you got bullied by big brothers: AWS and Alibaba

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#44

Post by bubblethink »

timdierks wrote: post #40
bubblethink wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but as a customer of RH, you are not allowed to distribute RH's binaries, or they will terminate your contract. That is also against the spirit of the GPL, although not necessarily the letter. You can take the source, remove the branding, recompile, and redistribute, which is similar to what CentOS does/used to. However, the GPL allows the former too. i.e., You can straight up distribute the binaries under GPL.

This is simply not true: it's explicitly not the intent of the GPL, and furthermore the GPL is clearly a contract which explicitly spells out its intent, not a vague document whose spirit needs to be interpreted.

It is explicit in the freedoms it grants you, one of which being the freedom to distribute copies. The intent is pretty clear. The RH workaround to that is that if you exercise this freedom, they will not do business with you in the future. You got to exercise your freedom, but only once. The GPL doesn't have recourse for that.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#45

Post by lmm »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

I don't see the rationale for their claims that the license is non-free? There's nothing discriminatory on the face of it. Plenty of acknowledgedly free licenses make commercial users uncomfortable (e.g. the AGPL).

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#46

Post by cyphar »

gigatexal wrote: post #42
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

But RHEL is not free. So... can’t this be included then only used after the user sets up a license?

RHEL is free software. It's not free of charge though.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#47

Post by chris_wot »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

IMO, MongoDB was suss from the very start. They made claims and overpromised (though I might be a little unfair in that others jumped on this bandwagon more heavily), so removing MongoDB from RHEL is not necessarily a bad thing.

Of course, I'm not a MongoDB fan for many, many reasons so I'm quite biased.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#49

Post by lozenge »

lmm wrote: post #45
giancarlostoro wrote: post #22

It seems[0] the new MongoDB license is basically non-free and it would make no sense to include it in RHEL8. I hope Debian and other distros follow suit as a result if they come in agreement. It's sad that the license change all resorts to greed basically, as if Oracle took over MongoDB. If I were to ever use a NoSQL database for a new project I'd aim for MIT / 2-clause BSD based projects instead. PostgreSQL has no i…

I don't see the rationale for their claims that the license is non-free? There's nothing discriminatory on the face of it. Plenty of acknowledgedly free licenses make commercial users uncomfortable (e.g. the AGPL).

"The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose" (freedom 0)

You can't run it using closed source management software to offer MongoDB as a service.

Re: MongoDB removed from RHEL 8 beta due to license

#50

Post by Thaxll »

pilif wrote: post #16
preinheimer wrote: post #13

This seems like a non-issue to me...? The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list. I'm a debian user, but their redhat installation instructions are similar: https://docs.mongodb.com/manual/tutorial/install-mongodb-on-... I guess it will be a small speed bump for people experimenting their first time, but I've never had an…

> The installation instructions I've always followed for MongoDB start with importing a key, and adding their official repo to my source list. Going with the maintainer's repo means that you trust the maintainer with providing security updates for the version you have installed or you trust them with providing a useable upgrade path. If you go with a distro package, you will get both the benefits of security updates…

Any serious deployment know that one should never deploy mysql / mongodb / postgress with the default maintainer repo.
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