Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism • Hacker News Board

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#161

Post by colordrops » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

stevenicr wrote: post #146

tokyodude wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the most random thing ticked me from Google good toward Google evil yesterday when I discovered an Android app can choose whether or not youre allowed to take a screenshot. (I'm normally iOS but have a Pixel 2 for testing) Apps imo should not have that control. It's my phone. I should be able to capture what I want. I shouldn't need to get out another device to take a picture of a bug or record a transaction for safe…

"won't be long before AI will decide if you can even take a picture of something." - Haven't some drone makers already started adding gps coordinates of places you can not fly / take picture at? So it appears this has already begun, and the database of off-limits places / things of the machines you think you direct has already begun, and will certainly grow larger.

Wait until it costs more to have your self-driving car go through wealthy neighborhoods.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#162

Post by watwut » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

CptFribble wrote: post #85

watwut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance exists with or without capitalism too, nevertheless we do analogical complain about capitalism being corrupted by it. Why the difference? Having slaves was profitable. A lot profitable. The only capitalist incentive for freedom was that north laborers did not wanted to compete with slaves. Competing with slaveholders sux, because slaves are cheaper and free men social status goes down if he do slaves lik…

Ancient Rome was around 30-40% slaves, though there were many different kinds used in addition to chattel slavery (various forms of indentured servitude, etc), so it's hard to make clear comparisons. However, the Roman empire wouldn't have existed in it's highest form without slaves. They were integral to the economy.

I am not sure what exactly does that prove or show? Once there was slavery somewhere we can not talk about how slavery evolved and got big elsewhere?

Since it was in Rome, it was not profitable in south? Or which of my points is invalid by slavery being in Rome too? Julius Caesar basically committed genocide and that is Rome, therefore we should not analyse origins and philosophies of contemporary genocides?

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#163

Post by watwut » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:02 AM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #100

CptFribble wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ancient Rome was around 30-40% slaves, though there were many different kinds used in addition to chattel slavery (various forms of indentured servitude, etc), so it's hard to make clear comparisons. However, the Roman empire wouldn't have existed in it's highest form without slaves. They were integral to the economy.

I remember reading that the Greeks or Romans would probably consider today's average wage earner a slave. Interesting to ponder about.

There are important difference among others ability of wage earner to leave without being beaten or killed for it. Feudal system gets closer to it and it is still not the same thing.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#164

Post by Kiro » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #47

ezoe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't overestimate the customer. "I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! Fix it now!" "I see. There are competing map services available." "That's not the map I want. I want the map!(Google Maps)" "You can use a browser." "Browser? What is it? I simply want to use map!" "If you really wan to use the Google Maps from the app. Then you have to install the app called Google Maps" "I don't un…

> I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! i mean, is it common for a user to hold contradictory thoughts like that?!

Yes, 100% and much worse.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#165

Post by Arn_Thor » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:38 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #154

Arn_Thor wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except, "my freedom ends where your freedom begins", so there are limits. And if we translate that to the real world all kinds of sticky "conflicts of freedom" emerge, especially between businesses and society.

That's what all the lords and kings used to say. "This freedom nonsense is too tricky for you all to manage yourselves, let us hold on to it and take care of it for you." Freedom is a messy thing. It not only needs to be used carefully, but nurtured. Misuse of it does not mean we should have less of it.

...That is more than I've read in the history books.

What you typed out here means nothing. It gives no clarity on where the border is between my freedom in my sphere of influence and your freedom in your sphere of influence. Saying "use freedom carefully" gets us nowhere unless we've already agreed to a set of principles such as "your freedom shouldn't restrict my freedom". And when that messy conversation has begun it leads on to "how can we make sure you adhere to that principle" and suddenly you've created a society and government.

"Moar freedom!" is a platitude. Unless freedom is limited (and we can argue all life long about what those limits should be) all you end up with is "might makes right". That's certainly not a society I want a part in

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#166

Post by MarsAscendant » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:44 AM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #104

MarsAscendant wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those curious: PEBKAC == "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair", means you, the user, are the cause of the issue, not the hardware or the software

For those who prefer a slightly more pleasant looking acronym, there is also: PICNIC == "Problem In Chair, Not In Computer"

I like that better. That said, imagine the office:

— "It's PICNIC again, guys"

— groans all around

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#167

Post by blub » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 7:55 AM UTC

ppod wrote: post #67

>Many people, it seems clear, experience surveillance capitalism less as a prison, where their agency is restricted in a noxious way, than as an all-inclusive resort, where their agency is restricted in a pleasing way. The possibility that a free, democratic publishing platform increases the agency of the average citizen is not permitted here.

The notion that any of those platforms is democratic is laughable. They are heavily censored for starters, among other things because they were cesspools of manipulation (hello election manipulation scandal!) and bullying/violence (hello Myanmar genocide!).

They're also intentionally filtered at the behest of the owners themselves and tuned to elicit user dependence on the platform.

Their cost is just hidden, they're not free.

So this possibility is permitted for about 5s, the time required to think about it a bit and then reject it as totally unrealistic.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#168

Post by jocoda » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 8:07 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #51

mulmen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has far more reach online than FB. The risks and harms with FB are largely social. Google is scary because of the type and amount of data they have and the amount of influence they have over the direction of the internet. Both companies scare the hell out of me but for different reasons.

I can see that. Google seems to have adult management, while Facebook seems to have a more... immature model. I don’t see how you can be Google without being scary.

Google is the Internet's black hole, sucking everything in. So massive that it bends everything towards it. And imo that's all it takes to be evil, being so powerful that you will always get your way.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#169

Post by Youden » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 8:07 AM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #18

Animats wrote: post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

How much tracking does Play Services do on its own? Is https://microg.org/ a suitable substitute?

I ran MicroG recently and for many cases it works but there are still places where it's lacking. For example it doesn't play nice with taxi apps. Notifications and such work just fine though, as does Google's own Play Store.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#170

Post by rebuilder » Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 8:14 AM UTC

jdblair wrote: post #38

hinkley wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how so many developers ended up on OS X. They wanted bash and the command line, but they got tired of dicking around with their machine all day.

Exactly! I made the same calculation 8 years ago, though now the cost Apple hardware has me reconsidering a PC with Linux for my next personal laptop.

The only major issue I've experienced is if you need the latest Nvidia drivers and CUDA. The odds are, if you just go and follow the sanest-seeming instructions you can find to install the drivers needed, your OS will no longer boot to desktop. If you do manage to install, the next kernel update will break the drivers and you're left with a black screen and hazy memories of how to fix it.

There are ways to get it to work, of course, but for any distro I've used, before you've dealt with this a few times, it's not obvious which set of instructions will both result in usable drivers and not break upon kernel update. I now have a "how to install Centos 7" document that I'm still not sure is actually 100% correct.