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Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

nytimes.com

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Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#731

Post by mk89 »

mirimir wrote: post #724
asabjorn wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

You're arguing against a strawman. So do you think that nations don't intervene covertly in other nations? What about the US in Iran (1953) or Chile (60s)? And so why is it so improbable that Russia is doing it? And recall the study by Prof. Igor Panarin (former KGB analyst) predicting that the US will fragment. Maybe it's more like a game plan.

You don't need to be a professor to know that sooner or later anything will fragment or "reshape" itself. Just learn the last 2000 years of history.

I think that what the OP is saying is that it's way too easy to always blame it on someone else when actually it's the voters' responsibility. We are definitely influenced by media, however, ultimately it's up to us to decide who to vote for, so it's our responsibility. Ignoring it doesn't make us less accountable.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#732

Post by asabjorn »

chillwaves wrote: post #712
asabjorn wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

[flagged]

How do we know that we in the elites that have been given ideology instead of a classic humanities education, taught what to think instead of how, and to become practiced in ignoring what our mind as well as eyes tell us is not worse off?

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#733

Post by tomlock »

asabjorn wrote: post #730
mirimir wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing against a strawman. So do you think that nations don't intervene covertly in other nations? What about the US in Iran (1953) or Chile (60s)? And so why is it so improbable that Russia is doing it? And recall the study by Prof. Igor Panarin (former KGB analyst) predicting that the US will fragment. Maybe it's more like a game plan.

I am just observing. It’s very impressive for Russia to be the essential force behind all major opposition movements that apparently are not rooted in legitimate concerns.

It isn't so impressive or surprising if you observe that a KGB man is in charge of Russia and the three letter agencies in America tasked with countering him have been tied up with other tasks since the the eleventh of september 2001 for some reason.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#734

Post by mirimir »

asabjorn wrote: post #730
mirimir wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing against a strawman. So do you think that nations don't intervene covertly in other nations? What about the US in Iran (1953) or Chile (60s)? And so why is it so improbable that Russia is doing it? And recall the study by Prof. Igor Panarin (former KGB analyst) predicting that the US will fragment. Maybe it's more like a game plan.

I am just observing. It’s very impressive for Russia to be the essential force behind all major opposition movements that apparently are not rooted in legitimate concerns.

I didn't say "essential force". And I didn't deny "legitimate concerns". If your goal is sowing chaos, you gotta build from those legitimate concerns.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#735

Post by alxh87 »

asabjorn wrote: post #709
dTal wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can deny it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Russian_interference_i... Of particular interest is where the massive pile of cash that funded the Leave campaign actually came from.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

It's not that interesting. Manipulation was targeted at people more susceptible to it.

I expect that most racism/sexism/bigotry generally comes from prior manipulation too.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#736

Post by asabjorn »

alasdair_ wrote: post #727
asabjorn wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

Everything seems to be going as planned. "The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[9]" "Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian pr…

Yes, the KGB defector Yuri [1] said as much. He describes a slow distruption they started of America by infiltrating the education system. This attacks the weakness of a democracy, which is the fact that it’s run by people for the behest of itself as a system and does not answer to an estate that would otherwise check its malfunctioning.

However, that doesn’t mean the movements of dissent is caused by this. They could be, or they could be a symptom of the problems not solved by a long term malfunctioning Democratic system.

[1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#737

Post by sbmthakur »

dTal wrote: post #669
justaguyhere wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be a lesson for all voters across the world - think for a minute before voting. At least try to understand what you're voting on. We can blame all we want on the media, politicians etc etc, but in the end, we can't deny Brexit is the result of a properly, democratically conducted election - voters need to take at least some responsibility. No amount of "voters' remorse" is going to help now.

I can deny it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Russian_interference_i... Of particular interest is where the massive pile of cash that funded the Leave campaign actually came from.

You make it look like the 'stay' campaign is not funded externally[1]. Obama had openly asked Britishers to vote "stay"[2]. I am not sure about Britain(or the West). But in most of the sovereign nations, this would be considered as foreign interference.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soro...

2. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/obama-eu-britain-brex...

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#738

Post by asabjorn »

alxh87 wrote: post #735
asabjorn wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is i…

It's not that interesting. Manipulation was targeted at people more susceptible to it. I expect that most racism/sexism/bigotry generally comes from prior manipulation too.

How do you know that other more major political stories is not the real product of manipulation [1] and these opposition movements are a symptom of problems not solved by a malfunctioning Democratic system?

[1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#739

Post by madaxe_again »

microcolonel wrote: post #663
justaguyhere wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be a lesson for all voters across the world - think for a minute before voting. At least try to understand what you're voting on. We can blame all we want on the media, politicians etc etc, but in the end, we can't deny Brexit is the result of a properly, democratically conducted election - voters need to take at least some responsibility. No amount of "voters' remorse" is going to help now.

This form of condescension is a major part of why remainers have utterly failed to make their case. Remainers clearly believe they are better than brexiters, but do not address the issues which matter (lack of control on political matters which affect the lives of average people: trade, standards, communications, intellectual property, immigration) to the people they are ostensibly trying to convince. The Brexit refe…

Actually, all of these things have been discussed in very concrete terms ad infinitum, and not only does your precious brexit not address them, but it generally worsens them. You’re now going to say “I have yet to see a single argument...” and demand citations, to which you’ll then respond with breitbart links and comparisons between eu figures and Nazis. It has become a really boring pattern, and pardon me if I’m bored of trying to educate the wilfully uneducable.

Also, for the love of god, stop pretending that anything in that list matters to you other than immigration. You put it last to try to make it seem less prominent, yet it is the lynchpin of the leave movement and the driving factor behind a majority of leave voters.

Me, I’m leaving the country, as I’m sick of the xenophobia and uncertainty. Can’t run a business in this mess.

Re: Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament

#740

Post by jayalpha »

jpfr wrote: post #360
yholio wrote: post #41

The Brexit promise is something nobody can deliver on. It was a lie, you cannot force the EU to accept an unfavorable trade deal. If only for the reason that it would set an exceptionally bad precedent and everybody would want their own deal, to pick and choose the parts of EU membership that are favorable to them, leading the EU to implode. Somebody needs to own up to that lie and accept that a "no deal" outcome, wh…

> A "no deal" outcome, which is clearly bad, is still the best thing brexiters can actually deliver. It could go much much worse than just "bad". The UK imports a lot of food from EU neighbors. In case of a hard Brexit, this will just ... stop. The question is whether all supermarkets can immediately redo their supply chains. That is not likely. Especially since the UK will loose all trade agreements with the non-EU…

While I am highly skeptical of the Brexit I don't think any kind of collapse will happen.

"Our western societies are very efficient but also very fragile. If supermarkets can no longer fill up their shelves, people go hungry fast. If supermarkets can only fill 80% of shelves, people panic and start hoarding food. Those who are too late to the party go hungry. With enough people hungry for a few days, society collapses."

This is still true. I think most people have no idea how fragile our societies are. Still remember as a child in Germany how people made fun of old people hoarding food. Really uncool to hoard food. You know what is more uncool than hording food? Having nothing to eat. African countries or even countries like Ukraine may be much less fragile to disruptions of supply chains. But in industrialized countries, a few weeks of supply chain disruptions can lead to melt down of societies. The single households in cities likely have food for 2 or 3 days.

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