Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

sdbr.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 102 posts

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#41

Post by eslaught »

glhaynes wrote: post #32
eslaught wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?

I understand that they replace them with whatever is newest at the time, so since I did my replacement in fall 2018, yes.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#42

Post by gergles »

glhaynes wrote: post #32
eslaught wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?

No, they do not. Unfortunately, they are replacing them with the keyboard that your machine came with. Not the 2018 ones that have sort-of fixed the biggest issues.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#43

Post by miles »

glhaynes wrote: post #32
eslaught wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?

Apparently not:

Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/15/third-gen-keyboard-excl...

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#44

Post by apk-d »

izacus wrote: post #10
giancarlostoro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the same, but I went with a Surface Book 2 instead, I love this thing. Pretty sweet keyboard and I can get as Unix friendly as I need to with MobaXterm (use it for X forwarding) and WSL. I have an ASUS Laptop with Linux on it for my pure Linux itch and I still got a Macbook Air. I was ticket off that the Macbook came back and the Air looks more like a Macbook than the Macbook, they should swap names (I've said…

I've been looking at one of these and the only thing that worries me is the hinge - it looks like the laptop is "fat" at the hinge part instead of closing together snugly. Is that a problem when carrying it around in comparison to a mac? Is it an annoyance?

I've been carrying around my SB2 15" in my backpack's laptop pocket for about half a year. Here's the summary.

- Zero problem with the fatness on my end. Looks kinda sexy tbh.

- The keyboard is really good about from the fn key which acts as a toggle (if you don't combo it with another key). Can never get quite used to that.

- The body paint can get scratched and worn down if you're reckless.

- The hinge itself works fine ~~~97% of the time. Occasionally gets stuck (can't detach) for unknown reason requiring a reboot or two, or some dirt gets in the way of the connectors and it thinks it got detached when you move it around.

- Battery life feels somewhat disappointing, but I haven't done rigorous tests. If you're planning to use the gpu, you better bring that charger.

- The gpu gets thermally throttled pretty easily.

- Performance at the 4k-ish resolution can be disappointing depending on the app (even the browser). This gets worse if you add an external monitor or if you don't run it above the "recommended" performance level. Unfortunately most devs (including MS) seem to optimize for 1920x1080.

- My SB seems to have problems with WMR even with the official adapter (display goes black occasionally).

- There's a driver (?) bug with the screen brightness sometimes being too low. I've filed a report on the feedback thing, but I'm not seeing or expecting any response. Love the screen (and the width\height ratio) otherwise.

Overall, it's a decent and interesting machine, but the edges can be rough.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#45

Post by [deleted] »

glhaynes wrote: post #32
eslaught wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?

[deleted]

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#46

Post by hinkley »

eslaught wrote: post #30
dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that'…

I thought you were saying you wrote a PhD thesis about the Macbook Pro keyboard.

Yeah I can't quite put my finger on it but it bugs me too. I still have the old one at home, new one at work. It feels wrong, and it's so loud you can't type in a meeting without everybody knowing you're typing. I've put off buying a new one for myself because of this, hoping Jony Ive read everyone involved with this project the riot act.

We've seen butterfly v1 and v1.5. I'm waiting to see what butterfly v2 looks like before I buy another one.

... I also hope that whichever people in the universe he accepts advice from have intimated to him in the strongest of possible terms that he should be paying attention to Apple's industrial design, and leave building design to architects (ex: walls you can't see really?)

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#47

Post by forgetcolor »

Trying this out. I like it more than I thought I would. But a couple comments:

1) The sounds appear to all be the same, regardless of key. Seems there should be some subtle variation in the sound, even if it just a very slight modulation in pitch? This would better map with real mechanical keyboards.

2) The sounds appear too far delayed to me. Like it's slightly out of sync w/ my typing. I turned off the keyup sound—which helps—but not enough. It may be this is a limitation you can't overcome.

3) The sound quality seems low. Maybe obtain higher quality samples and/or don't compress it so much?

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#48

Post by dkhenry »

TomVDB wrote: post #25
dkhenry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in the exact same situation late last year, and I went with a X1 Carbon 6th Generation. It has been fantastic. Everything just works, and it has probably the best keyboard I have ever used on a laptop

Just 2 days ago, I spent 2 hours researching alternatives for my mid-2012 MBPr 15 and had settled on an X1 Carbon as well. How's the trackpad? How's sleep mode if you use it with Linux? I'm still on the fence, but I ordered an iFixit battery replacement kit for the MBP. After almost 7 years (!), it still has everything I need except for the fact that it randomly shuts down when the battery is at 60%...

My trackpad works well, as does the trackpad of everyone else at my company that I have ordered them for, however I have been told they had different suppliers for some of the X1's and a few people have complained that the trackpad and nubbin won't work at the same time.

Sleep mode works great, there is a bios setting for Linux which by default is set to Windows 10, once you set it to linux deep sleep works just by closing the lid, and it resumes as expected.

I do use it with Linux, I have Ubuntu 18.04 running on it and it works great. usb-c charging it amazing, and it works great with my usb-c monitor ( lets me have a single cable to connect everything to the laptop and to charge the laptop ) Battery life is fantastic, the only thing I have to get used to is the CPU in it can burn a lot of battery if you are running it at full load for an extended period of time. When I am running lots of containers on kubernetes it can burn down the battery in a few hours.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#49

Post by forgetcolor »

klodolph wrote: post #39
forgetcolor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay with the travel changes (and even sometimes prefer it to the old generation). I am unhappy about the increased sound, but can live with it. But the regular problems with repeating keys is an insane regression in functionality. I have this problem with a different key almost every day (today it's my 'i' key), but most days one of the keys repeats itself every time I activate iti, such that—see, that "iti" was…

This is a defect. There's a service program for keyboards with problems. I took mine to be serviced and it was returned without repeating keys or stuck keys. https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...

Yes, have tried this. Comes back working and then develops the same problem shortly thereafter. Further, Apple Stores are about a 2.5hr drive for me, so I can't just easily keep popping in for every issue -- especially if I think the fix won't last anyway.

Re: De-Suckafying Apple’s Butterfly Keyboard

#50

Post by bberenberg »

dkonofalski wrote: post #8

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

I have one. B,N,O keys are all having issues. Randomly generated longass password happens to hit all 3. Authing to the system is a nightmare. I travel with a bluetooth keyboard as a result.

If I want Apple to replace the keyboard, I have to risk that they will destroy the SSD. Their best solution for me to is to buy another Macbook, clone the system, have them do the repair, then return the spare Macbook. Really frustrating.

Post reply on HN