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Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

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Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#51
post #40
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

Google has far more reach online than FB. The risks and harms with FB are largely social. Google is scary because of the type and amount of data they have and the amount of influence they have over the direction of the internet. Both companies scare the hell out of me but for different reasons.

I can see that. Google seems to have adult management, while Facebook seems to have a more... immature model.

I don’t see how you can be Google without being scary.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#52
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then spend a significant amount of my free time maintaining my phone. This is not a realistic recommendation for a non-technical phone user who just want their device to work. (I'm not just tossing this out there, I put Cyanogen on a Nexus 5 for a while.)

This is how so many developers ended up on OS X. They wanted bash and the command line, but they got tired of dicking around with their machine all day.

So true. I used to be a gentoo user, then fedora and arch, all in my laptop. It was fun to tinker with it but eventually you have other stuff to do and just need a laptop that works. Now, I won't say every time cuz even OSX has glitches but rarely (for my use cases anyways).

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#53
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't overestimate the customer. "I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! Fix it now!" "I see. There are competing map services available." "That's not the map I want. I want the map!(Google Maps)" "You can use a browser." "Browser? What is it? I simply want to use map!" "If you really wan to use the Google Maps from the app. Then you have to install the app called Google Maps" "I don't un…

> I don't like Google Maps and I deleted it. Now I can't see the map! i mean, is it common for a user to hold contradictory thoughts like that?!

My mother: Fix my login for the retirement accounts.

[I start to explain how she keeps messing up the browser saved passwords.]

Never mind that! Just fix the login!

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#54
post #6
post #2

Worth reading even for those who already read the NYT review, as it nicely explains the timeline of how we got into this situation. Fully agree that Google and Facebook are mainly to blame. As an example, Google's success in surveillance and pacifying critics through open source trinkets almost definitely convinced Microsoft to try its hand at the same game. And now the two biggest operating system developers are spy…

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

> Google seems more passive and delivers more utility.

Google delivers no utility beyond the companies that it acquired, and its monopolies due to size and control over so many handsets allowed it to push out the competition that would force it to improve what it does offer.

Youtube and Maps, at least, have a worse, more intrusive interface than they did 10 years ago. It's completely a subjective statement, but for me their search results are far worse in comparison to 10 years ago, and in obvious ways, like every link on the first 5 pages of any search trying to sell me something or repeating the same wikipedia copy.

To estimate the utility of Google, you have to compare it to the ecosystem that you would expect to have existed if Google didn't exist, not to the ecosystem you would expect if search engines, streaming video lockers, and an alternative to iOS on mobile didn't exist.

The only two nice things that google ever did for me was 1) count backlinks to give me better search results, and 2) create a culture of less intrusive ads through their monopoly power. The SEO people killed innovation 1), and google pretended that they were going to use magic AI to beat them but secretly gave up. 2) would have been done anyway by the rise of the adblockers, and google ruined all goodwill by innovating on a culture of intrusive tracking and behavior monitoring and profiling on the internet that has become a threat to its very existence.

Facebook is just filling a need that governments should be filling: providing an organized way for individuals to communicate with each other over the internet. Extracting rents is what companies do when they take over functions for absentee governments. Facebook doesn't seem to care much about what is outside facebook, other than how it helps them extract more rent from the people inside facebook.

Google is actively spreading over everything, and making it worse.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#55
post #38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how so many developers ended up on OS X. They wanted bash and the command line, but they got tired of dicking around with their machine all day.

Exactly! I made the same calculation 8 years ago, though now the cost Apple hardware has me reconsidering a PC with Linux for my next personal laptop.

This is true as well. I'm on the same boat. Next time that an upgrade is due I'll have to do a more serious due diligence.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#56
post #9

I think it's a big mistake to blame Google and Facebook. They are just the latest symptoms of a long term trend. I think the real corruption started sometime in 70s or 80s when it became acceptable to declare that a company has no other obligations than to their shareholders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman and the Chicago School of economics are the nexus of the change you're describing.

If you're sort of liberal, it's a real mind bender to listen to Milton's speeches on YouTube. It was the first time I really felt exposed to the philosophical core of the various negative things I thought were random externalities of 'capitalism'

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#58
post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

Some services could have dependencies. On Samsung devices you could kind of break the launcher/os in some parts by disabling apps and services that you think are unneeded.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#59

It really speaks to the great improvement of the human condition, that the big complaint about the top companies of today is that they are showing us personalized ads, rather than burning the earth or poisoning babies.

You say that like top companies aren't doing either of those things anymore. They are very much doing those things.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#60
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the importance to hold true, the profession as a whole must solve the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Wow, when statement that journalists are important is downgraded, we truly live in dystopia.

Even if you agree with the statement, it was a meaningless reply to the question asked.
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