Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism • Hacker News Board

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#21

Post by zzzcpan » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #6

blub wrote: post #2

Worth reading even for those who already read the NYT review, as it nicely explains the timeline of how we got into this situation. Fully agree that Google and Facebook are mainly to blame. As an example, Google's success in surveillance and pacifying critics through open source trinkets almost definitely convinced Microsoft to try its hand at the same game. And now the two biggest operating system developers are spy…

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

Google is hard to escape, Facebook you can just not use.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#22

Post by andrenth » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

meroes wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Slavery predates capitalism, it’s definitely not a consequence of it.

In fact, since slaves can’t be consumers, capitalism works as an incentive for freedom.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#23

Post by Ivoirians » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

devereaux wrote: post #10

If you're not the client, you're the product. Then think about how much do you pay for google and facebook services.

How much do people pay to use Linux or DuckDuckGo? This statement is parroted so much and adds so little to every discussion.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#24

Post by ergothus » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:37 PM UTC

I'm a bit torn on this - for a long while, I saw Google as trying to promote "the right way" of doing things, and only getting frustrated and doing it themselves after handset manufacturers and cell providers kept doing it wrong. I mean, was the original Nexus anything other than "look everyone, this is how it SHOULD be done, but we have no interest in actually being the ones to do it"?

That doesn't deny that Google has done a lot I'm not comfy with - but I feel like had these other players done the right thing and not refused to update OSes, if they had embraced open APIs, then Google wouldn't even have been tempted to do some of the particular evils the article discusses.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#25

Post by buboard » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

I m sure if the book is as described, it's going to be very popular with the HN crowd, however one has to wonder if what is claimed is true. If the ability to mold the behaviors of people has increased , then why were people spending a lot more in the 1920s for advertising than they are now[1]? Why did online ad spending surpass TV only in 2017, and TV advertising keeps rising as well[2]? If anything, the conclusion is that the effectiveness of ads has dropped , so publishers like google have to scrape the bottom of the behavioral barrel to make it through. Also, even for google, the bulk of advertising income is from search results, not from 'evil' behavioral tracking.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_advertising#/media/...

2. https://www.smartinsights.com/advertising/online-ad-spend-ov...

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#26

Post by qu4z-2 » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

jdblair wrote: post #20

Animats wrote: post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

And then spend a significant amount of my free time maintaining my phone. This is not a realistic recommendation for a non-technical phone user who just want their device to work. (I'm not just tossing this out there, I put Cyanogen on a Nexus 5 for a while.)

Disabling the Google apps hasn't lead me to need time maintaining my phone. Disabling Play Services and Play Store makes things a hassle, but stuff like Google Drive or Google Play Music doesn't.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#27

Post by 3xblah » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

Disabling Play Services will prevent many "store" marketed apps from installing/working, i.e., execution will stop and the user will get those ridiculous coercive or cryptic messages. F-Droid apps will of course work fine. However at least on the phones I have tried one can disable Play Services, disable the Play Store, and Google Maps will still work. No Google account needed.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#28

Post by hinkley » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

jdblair wrote: post #20

Animats wrote: post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

And then spend a significant amount of my free time maintaining my phone. This is not a realistic recommendation for a non-technical phone user who just want their device to work. (I'm not just tossing this out there, I put Cyanogen on a Nexus 5 for a while.)

This is how so many developers ended up on OS X.

They wanted bash and the command line, but they got tired of dicking around with their machine all day.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#29

Post by watwut » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #25

I m sure if the book is as described, it's going to be very popular with the HN crowd, however one has to wonder if what is claimed is true. If the ability to mold the behaviors of people has increased , then why were people spending a lot more in the 1920s for advertising than they are now[1]? Why did online ad spending surpass TV only in 2017, and TV advertising keeps rising as well[2]? If anything, the conclusion…

Because in 1920 one ad reached less people and required more effort to produce and competition now is fierce so prices had to drop?

The stats you show does not have all that much to do with ease of convincing someone and could be explained by millions other ways.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#30

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #9

I think it's a big mistake to blame Google and Facebook. They are just the latest symptoms of a long term trend. I think the real corruption started sometime in 70s or 80s when it became acceptable to declare that a company has no other obligations than to their shareholders.

Or the concept of corporate free speech, person-hood and "too big to let fail."