Live data from Hacker News

Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

lareviewofbooks.org

11–20 of 222 posts

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#11
>Under the Fordist model of mass production and consumption that prevailed for much of the 20th century, industrial capitalism achieved a relatively benign balance among the contending interests of business owners, workers, and consumers.

Capitalism is like the presidency, as soon as the new iteration comes along, everybody looks wistfully back to the previous administration.

>Enlightened executives understood that good pay and decent working conditions would ensure a prosperous middle class eager to buy the goods and services their companies produced.

Should I laugh or cry at this? Where were these enlightened executives when...oh, yeah, they were asking governors to call out the national guard to roll out machine guns on flat cars and shoot striking strikers and burn their family's tents.

>This is not to suggest that our lives are best evaluated with spreadsheets.

If they were spreadsheets, the implication would be that someone human would eventually look at them. But the whole point is to abstract such away from the human.

I forget where I read it, but someone who studies these things, presented that during the middle ages, the so-called trial by ordeal was really about doing two things, [aka the touching, for example, of a hot iron the accused's arm or palm and then bandaging and seeing if it was healing or pussy after a set number of days] wasn't about belief in some supernatural judgement but a way removing both God and man from the need to make the decision. Really, have we gotten so far away from that?

Also, people downplay Foucault, but I think more and more that might merely because of how topical he is, even after all this time. The panopticon has become unclothed from its steel-and-concrete body to be reborn transcendent.

>A less tendentious, more dispassionate tone would make her argument harder for Silicon Valley insiders and sympathizers to dismiss.

Considering where this article is from (and thinking of Wallace Stegner, who was supported by the CIA in regards to the Iowa Writer's Workshop to attack communistic and other such anti-capitalist elements) I can't help but recall a passage in one of Stegner's own books on writing praising the dispassionate, which, along with 'show don't tell' were expressly promulgated to prevent and inculcate writers from undesired politics (and that isn't a joke[1]).

[1]https://www.uipress.uiowa.edu/books/9781609383718/workshops-...

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#12
post #7
post #3

[flagged]

Here, I think you dropped your copy of "Das Kapital"

The OP is fairly opaque in their acceptance of socialist ideas- perhaps if you disagree enough to comment the very least you could do is provide some substance.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#13
post #6
post #2

Worth reading even for those who already read the NYT review, as it nicely explains the timeline of how we got into this situation. Fully agree that Google and Facebook are mainly to blame. As an example, Google's success in surveillance and pacifying critics through open source trinkets almost definitely convinced Microsoft to try its hand at the same game. And now the two biggest operating system developers are spy…

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

In my view, Google is far worse. The company took entire internet and bent it to its advantage. It has monopolized search and delivery of information, and it has monopoly on digital advertising. It’s actually destroying creation of content online, because there is no money left to creators, such as journalists, bloggers, etc. There is a reason why The Guardian has donate button under its articles: it’s one of the many outlets that is struggling because of the unethical black hole called Google.

PS I just came back from CES as a journalist. Tried to get in touch with Google folks, and they are literally behind the walls, unavailable for interviews. It’s all hush hush. Security at Aria suites where they were present. No access whatsoever. Their main booth at LVCC was staffed by temps hired in Las Vegas, whose only job was to jump and shout Hey Google! Truly dystopian.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#14

If you're not the client, you're the product. Then think about how much do you pay for google and facebook services.

Nah, this sounds pithy but isn't true:

Facebook needs you to like them so you voluntarily come back. You are the customer. “You are the product” misunderstands the business.

(https://twitter.com/pt/status/979092827522048000)

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#15
post #6
post #2

Worth reading even for those who already read the NYT review, as it nicely explains the timeline of how we got into this situation. Fully agree that Google and Facebook are mainly to blame. As an example, Google's success in surveillance and pacifying critics through open source trinkets almost definitely convinced Microsoft to try its hand at the same game. And now the two biggest operating system developers are spy…

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

Google collects far more personal data than FB. The one thing that saves them from all the backlash that FB faced is that they don't seem to share those data with 3rd parties.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#16
post #13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

In my view, Google is far worse. The company took entire internet and bent it to its advantage. It has monopolized search and delivery of information, and it has monopoly on digital advertising. It’s actually destroying creation of content online, because there is no money left to creators, such as journalists, bloggers, etc. There is a reason why The Guardian has donate button under its articles: it’s one of the man…

When were "journalists, bloggers, etc." ever making money by creating content online? I don't think Google has anything to do with them having a big problem doing this successfully.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#17
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, I think you dropped your copy of "Das Kapital"

The OP is fairly opaque in their acceptance of socialist ideas- perhaps if you disagree enough to comment the very least you could do is provide some substance.

I don't expect substance from Hacker News capitalists, they're the type of people who buy into the whole "if it's legal, it's ethical" stance of SV tech companies like Google and Facebook. I expect down votes and logical fallacy when I spout my pinko commie drivel here.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#18
post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

How much tracking does Play Services do on its own?

Is https://microg.org/ a suitable substitute?

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#19
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, Google is far worse. The company took entire internet and bent it to its advantage. It has monopolized search and delivery of information, and it has monopoly on digital advertising. It’s actually destroying creation of content online, because there is no money left to creators, such as journalists, bloggers, etc. There is a reason why The Guardian has donate button under its articles: it’s one of the man…

When were "journalists, bloggers, etc." ever making money by creating content online? I don't think Google has anything to do with them having a big problem doing this successfully.

Journalism is a profession, and a very important one.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#20
post #4

"Anyone who tries to remove a pre-installed Google app from an Android phone, for instance, will likely be confronted by a vague but menacing warning: “If you disable this app, other apps may no longer function as intended.” This is a coy, high-tech form of blackmail: “Give us your data, or the phone dies.” They're bluffing. Turning off Google Drive, Google Duo, Google Gmail, Google Play Movies and TV, Google Play Mo…

And then spend a significant amount of my free time maintaining my phone. This is not a realistic recommendation for a non-technical phone user who just want their device to work.

(I'm not just tossing this out there, I put Cyanogen on a Nexus 5 for a while.)

Post reply on HN