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Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

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Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#131

Post by handrake »

jasonkester wrote: post #89
dedward wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can export them just fine - they just aren't allowing a 3rd party site to automatically import them - they're making you consciously do it yourself. To someone who can do it either way, this may just seem like an annoyance, but a great many people won't grasp the severity of what they are about to do by handing their credentials for gmail over to facebook.

Exactly. One week ago, you could seamlessly import them into Facebook. - That's a big step back. - It makes things worse for their users. - There is no positive effect from the change. - They did it on purpose. We're all here because we build web apps for a living. And none of us would ever consider doing something like that with one of our own sites. I have no idea why anybody at Google thought that this was a good…

But it is true that Facebook doesn't allow exporting user's contact data. So I think Google is making a valid point here. You are still free to do whatever with your own data - unlike Facebook. They are just making sure that you understand the risks in doing so.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#132

Post by krschultz »

portman wrote: post #75

Le sigh. I think Google has lost sight of something very simple in this fracas: With Google Contacts, the user directly manages his contacts' email addresses . With Facebook, the user delegates management of email address to his contacts . These are not the same thing. The Google contacts team seems to think that Facebook is an address book just like them . They are not. And to me, that failure to understand the diff…

From the other direction, I use one email address for public facing stuff and one for actual emails. So for me the email address Facebook has is actually worthless to me and the email address other people have for me in their Gmail accounts is hugely valuable to me.

Honestly I could care less if the email address used for Facebook is publicly posted and I get spammed from every penis enlargement pill salesmen on the planet, I never read it.

When my actual Gmail address gets passed to Facebook by someone who joined and imported their contact list, and then they email me, I find it to be far more of an invasion of privacy.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#133

Post by stanleydrew »

portman wrote: post #117
stanleydrew wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pretty big difference, but I still don't see how failing to understand it on google's part (and they probably do understand it) is the source of all this.

Language like this makes me think they don't understand: "essentially locking up your contact data about your friends" Note the first 'your' in that sentence: From Google's P.O.V., the email address of your friend is your data. From Facebook's P.O.V, the email address of your friend is not your data -- it's the friend's data.

But Facebook will allow me to export that friend's data to Hotmail or Yahoo Mail. Doesn't that seem to completely contradict Facebook's entire stance?

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#135

Post by chrischen »

Google should also point out that if Facebook lets you export your friends' emails then your friends can do the same to your email. And that if that happens one bad or compromised friend can give yours and everyone else's emails to spammers.

Same thing can happen with Google Contacts, but the difference is that on Contacts you give out your email. On Facebook you signup with an email and then you "friend" someone.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#136

Post by jmeyers »

pama wrote: post #9
corin_ wrote: post #5

It's so nice of these two companies to be spending their time and money creating this great entertainment for all of us

Maybe this can inspire some better movies?

Maybe this can inspire the replacement for Face book.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#137

Post by chrischen »

davorak wrote: post #119
jasonkester wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. One week ago, you could seamlessly import them into Facebook. - That's a big step back. - It makes things worse for their users. - There is no positive effect from the change. - They did it on purpose. We're all here because we build web apps for a living. And none of us would ever consider doing something like that with one of our own sites. I have no idea why anybody at Google thought that this was a good…

Facebook is play a greedy game theory strategy by not allowing for a user to download their social graph. Googles response was to use a tit for tat game theory strategy which is effective against the greedy game theory strategy. The greedy game theory strategy in this case ends up being bad for consumers, they can not download their social graph from Facebook. Game theory subjects that when the vast major of agents a…

> Facebook is play a greedy game theory strategy by not allowing for a user to download their social graph.

You CAN download your graph data. You can get friends lists with UIDs, and that is theoretically AND practically enough to reconstruct the graph on a third party site. The only difference between getting UIDs and emails is the third party site won't be able to spam all your friends or connect you with your friends unless you've also opted to use Facebook graph data.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#138

Post by ewjordan »

trevelyan wrote: post #27
joakin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get it wrong, facebook it's not protecting you against anything, they are just monopolizing your relationships so that you won't move on with ease to other services.

What does Facebook's motives have to do with anything? The question under discussion is whether a random stranger who can convince one of my friends to sign up for a virtual pet should suddenly be able to spam me. Facebook has good reasons not to open their social graph -- and Google's lecturing them about noblesse oblige on this front is silly. Google should make decisions about its data portability policy based on…

What does Facebook's motives have to do with anything? The question under discussion is whether a random stranger who can convince one of my friends to sign up for a virtual pet should suddenly be able to spam me.

That is, indeed, the question under discussion.

But the question that should be under discussion is whether I should have the ability to toggle an "e-mail" field alongside the 18 other fields of information that Facebook allows me to expose to apps when a friend decides to sign up for a virtual pet. Facebook encourages me to share my pictures, my status updates, my location, my birthday, etc., with apps that my friends use, yet doesn't even allow me to choose whether to share my e-mail address.

For my protection, my ass. If that ability didn't go against their business interests, you can bet there'd be an option to allow that.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#139

Post by arron61 »

portman wrote: post #120
armandososa wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And juste because I delegated management of contacts to Facebook, are they excused for not letting me get my data out whenever I want to switch contact management services -- for example -- to diaspora?

Again, this hinges on the meaning "my data". From your statement, I am guessing you believe that the email addresses of your contacts is your data. So here's the thought experiment: Amy uses GMail and has been corresponding with Bill, who works at Acme. Bill's email address, bill@acme.com, is in Amy's GMail address book. "bill@acme.com" is now a piece of data that is, unquestionably, "owned" by Amy. Amy joins Faceboo…

The point is FB can sell your data to other companies like Yahoo and Microsoft and this is not a privacy issue. When you attempt to download your own data, it becomes one...ROFL..right..FB really thinks this is a privacy issue. It's just a PR stunt so they can keep all their data within their ecosystem.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#140

Post by ewjordan »

kmavm wrote: post #81
ck2 wrote: post #48

I approve a warning 1000% - it's not like they are stopping you from exporting. This will slow down my AOL-using friends who gave away all their contact info to Facebook and now I get pelted with spam from Facebook using my name and list of friends (and I don't even have a Facebook account). Google has never spammed me or share my name and location, Facebook does it all the time, pick who's more evil.

> This will slow down my AOL-using friends who gave away all their contact info to Facebook and now I get pelted with spam ... Right; there are practical usability problems with allowing willy-nilly access to your contact list. Some of your contacts have now given your email address to a company with which you never wanted to have a relationship. Which is precisely Facebook's reasoning for not providing an API to dow…

Right; there are practical usability problems with allowing willy-nilly access to your contact list. Some of your contacts have now given your email address to a company with which you never wanted to have a relationship.

This is a red herring. Facebook lets me choose whether my friends can give away literally anything else that's part of my Facebook presence to third party apps. In fact, there's a strong recommendation that I allow as much access to apps as possible, in the name of a "more social" experience. They let apps that I've never used spam me daily, I don't really get the sense that they care whether they force me into relationships with companies I have no interest in, as long as it happens within Facebook.

Why should I not get to decide whether to expose my e-mail address? If I want to, I'm allowed to set my e-mail address to "Everyone" visibility in my profile, literally the only thing I'm not allowed to do is expose it via the API.

That's a very deliberate choice, and maybe I'm a cynic, but it strikes me as mighty telling that the lack of API access to the e-mail part of the social graph is just about the only barrier in the way of Google being able to reconstitute the entire Gmail intersection of Facebook's social graph (Facebook UIDs don't suffice, because Google can't match these to e-mail addresses without the users explicitly doing so for them).

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