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Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

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121–130 of 294 posts

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

Well out of convenience you kind of have to. But if you really wanted to you can just disable it at ports of entry.

You don't have to. At least in Android it is fairly easy to disable the fingerprint reader and force a PIN to unlock.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#122
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't have attackers going after them who are harvesting fingerprints to get into their devices.

Am I wrong that an (inevitable) biometric data breach would mean this can be done on the cheap (if you were unlucky enough to have given your data to a third party)?

Yes, at least for finger prints. Getting the print is easy, especially with glass back phones, it's making a good enough fake that's non-trivial.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well out of convenience you kind of have to. But if you really wanted to you can just disable it at ports of entry.

Which is easy enough to do on iOS: Hit the sleep/wake button 5 times quickly.

Careful - after iOS 12 that defaults to calling 911 for you (while also locking your device). You can change that in the settings though.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are absolutely allowed to lie during an interrogation. I’ve seen it done multiple times. The most disturbing interrogation I’ve ever seen was actually the one where a teenager murdered his own father while under the influence of magic mushrooms. He was taken into the interrogation room shortly after the murder but enough time had elapsed that he was sober and just starting to understand the gravity of what he…

Did you expect the guy to get off free for murder?

You can hardly call it a conviction when it was based on deception.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

Well out of convenience you kind of have to. But if you really wanted to you can just disable it at ports of entry.

> Well out of convenience you kind of have to.

What a sentence.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#126
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they have a warrant? At that point I would argue that you are not self-incriminating. In my mind, it's like if the police had a warrant to search your apartment and you didn't let them in.

More like: Police: "We have a warrant for your apartment, let us in" Suspect: "Sorry, I lost the key when I went hiking in the Rocky Mountains, there's no way in. Oh, and be aware that if you try to force your way in more than 5 times, the apartment will catch fire and destroy everything inside" What would happen in this case? Can the suspect be held in contempt?

Probably obstruction of justice IMHO

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s hope the Supreme Court hears it and it stands.

It won't stand because it's not pragmatic. The issue around 'passwords being in your mind' is interesting, but they'll move past it. If you have evidence of a crime on your phone, it must be part of the process. There's nothing remotely unlawful about search of property so long as there is merit, oversight, warrant etc.. Ultimately, this will be no different than searching your car. Now, the cops doing it without a w…

It it's the same as searching the car, open the door and search. Break the window, if needed. But it is more like searching your brain, which is the whole point of the 5th, it seems. On your argumentation, there is no 5th. You can get a warrant to search someone's mind by asking questions they need to answer, even if it's self-incriminating. End of story.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#128
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judicial branch and the legislature have also been quite hostile to the 4th during that period. Its absolutely not a problem isolated to the executive.

Thank you, Antonin "Emails aren't Papers" Scalia.

[deleted]

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#129
My bet is that this doesn't stand, because (from the haphazard reading I've done) it doesn't comport with the reasoning used to allow people to refuse passwords, which is that the act of disclosing a password is a form of self-testimony --- not that rifling through a phone is intrinsically self-testimony. If I understand correctly (and there are lawyers on HN who can shoot this down) people have tried and failed to make this same claim about breathalyzer and blood tests and failed.

Just having an opinion about the case isn't all that interesting, and other people have said roughly the same thing on this thread, so what I'd like to contribute is the offer to go in on a long bet against the precedential value of this particular case. If it's eventually overturned, $100 to the charity of my choice; if it's exhausted procedurally and allowed to stand, $100 to yours. Any takers?

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

Most people don't have attackers going after them who are harvesting fingerprints to get into their devices.

A mugger can get into your device - less relevant now given that wallets are where the value is 99% of the time but given pay with phone options growing in popularity that might be a matter of concern eventually.
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