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China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#211

Post by HeyZuess »

3pt14159 wrote: post #71
mikeash wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

Either China is doing this so they can have something to retreat on that seems gracious and careful (i.e., it's a complete ploy) or they're completely misreading Canadian sentiment. Canadians tend to give and give and bend and bend, but it really comes to it they snap in a way that I don't think the Chinese understand. We have way more leverage over China than they have over us. We sell them commodities. They sell us…

> Take it up with the Americans for fucks sake.

Look I am no big fan of the Chinese political engine, but maybe Canada overstepped. The arrest of the CFO can be seen as highly political motivated, and now China is showing Canada that it too can do the same thing and arrest citizens of other countries (maybe even on flimsy grounds) or in this case use it's legal system to pressure and manipulate international relationships.

Canada got stuck in the middle (as many countries do when they do the bidding of the US) and have now got a slap on the wrist.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#212

Post by mikeash »

darkpuma wrote: post #209
mikeash wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that this case does not influence a rational evaluation of the risk/reward of travel to China is hardly “apologizing for China.”

If brushing off a capricious upgrade of a 15 year sentence to a death sentence isn't apologist, then I don't know what is. But don't worry, with this ridiculous display I'm sure you won't wind up on their naughty list anytime soon.

Don't forget the context: I'm brushing it off in terms of its impact on the decision of whether to travel to a particular country.

Or go ahead and forget the context so you can make me sound worse, seems to be your thing.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#213

Post by magduf »

irrational wrote: post #198
magduf wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If we start banning Chinese phones we'll buy American ones come in instead. Huh? America doesn't make any phones, and worse, simply does not even have the technology to make phones if they wanted to. America does not have the technology needed to make the screens for them, most notably: the screen technology is all in Asia.

It doesn't have the technology or the manufacturing capability?

Neither. The technology is made in China or Korea, and owned by the Koreans. We couldn't build modern smartphone screens in the US without doing serious industrial espionage on our own ally, and even then setting up the manufacturing capability would cost billions, if we could get it working and not have a problem like the "capacitor plague" that happened when the Chinese tried stealing Japanese capacitor formulae back in the late 90s or early 2000s and didn't quite get it right.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#214

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mikeash wrote: post #204
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese work visa rules contain requirements like you must do P and you can’t do P. Compliance is impossible given the contradiction. Instead, you need to go with the flow like everyone else, China is not a rule of law country, they will just use the law on you if they don’t like you (and given the way the laws are written, you are necessarily breaking something). It is also important to read sources like https://www…

I can’t find a definitive answer of exactly what she was accused of, but it sounds like she just didn’t have a work permit at all. I doubt there’s a requirement to not have a permit to work.

Read the China law blog. If you are an English teacher, you might think you have a proper work permit when your employer has done something really dodgy. They do that because they can’t hire foreign teachers properly, and everyone was just expected to break the rules in the past.

For high paid high tech workers this isn’t much of a problem, we got proper work permits, I think.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#215

Post by tomp »

scrumper wrote: post #192
stochastic_monk wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How subtle a threat is a death sentence?

It's interpretable as a subtle threat to Yang. The message looks on the surface like solidarity: "We'll step up tensions over your arrest. We're on your side. Hang tight." But really, it says, "We have no issues whatsoever with judicial murder so keep your mouth shut." It's not like Canada is going to release her to get a convicted drug smuggler out of jail after all. Maybe it is not so subtle!

Why would they want to threaten her publicly, as oppposed to say through her lawyer?

I'm pretty sure whatever message there is, it was mean for Canada, US and the world.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#216

Post by mikeash »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #214
mikeash wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t find a definitive answer of exactly what she was accused of, but it sounds like she just didn’t have a work permit at all. I doubt there’s a requirement to not have a permit to work.

Read the China law blog. If you are an English teacher, you might think you have a proper work permit when your employer has done something really dodgy. They do that because they can’t hire foreign teachers properly, and everyone was just expected to break the rules in the past. For high paid high tech workers this isn’t much of a problem, we got proper work permits, I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if her employer tricked her into thinking she had the proper permit, as you suggest. I don't see how that matters. I'm sure that sort of thing happens all over the place. The sort of people who would hire workers illegally are also the sort of people who would lie to them and say it's all legal.

Work without authorization, get caught, get arrested and deported. Happens every day in countries all over the world. I don't see anything even remotely remarkable about this case.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#217

Post by 3pt14159 »

HeyZuess wrote: post #211
3pt14159 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either China is doing this so they can have something to retreat on that seems gracious and careful (i.e., it's a complete ploy) or they're completely misreading Canadian sentiment. Canadians tend to give and give and bend and bend, but it really comes to it they snap in a way that I don't think the Chinese understand. We have way more leverage over China than they have over us. We sell them commodities. They sell us…

> Take it up with the Americans for fucks sake. Look I am no big fan of the Chinese political engine, but maybe Canada overstepped. The arrest of the CFO can be seen as highly political motivated, and now China is showing Canada that it too can do the same thing and arrest citizens of other countries (maybe even on flimsy grounds) or in this case use it's legal system to pressure and manipulate international relation…

Let me try to make this as clear as I can:

Canada operates on the rule of law.

Rule of law.

Rule of law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law

When the fucking Queen of England had a minor medical issue and was bumped in priority in the hospital she was in it was fucking news with journalists asking how this list was overseen. Our own head of state made the news because she got bumped in our hospitals.

When the Americans do a request like this it doesn't go through our political arm. It goes through our civil service and our courts. We don't have random people with the random power to bend the law. We set law and judges enforce it. Some laws we have are very flexible, like the ones we have for CSIS, etc. But we don't politick extradition.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#218

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mikeash wrote: post #216
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the China law blog. If you are an English teacher, you might think you have a proper work permit when your employer has done something really dodgy. They do that because they can’t hire foreign teachers properly, and everyone was just expected to break the rules in the past. For high paid high tech workers this isn’t much of a problem, we got proper work permits, I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if her employer tricked her into thinking she had the proper permit, as you suggest. I don't see how that matters. I'm sure that sort of thing happens all over the place. The sort of people who would hire workers illegally are also the sort of people who would lie to them and say it's all legal. Work without authorization, get caught, get arrested and deported. Happens every day in countries a…

It happens enough in China that it’s a common occurrence. Enforcement of Chinese law makes the employee culpable, not the employer, so the employers see no reason to stop doing that to each new crop of naive foreigners.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#220

Post by mikeash »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #218
mikeash wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if her employer tricked her into thinking she had the proper permit, as you suggest. I don't see how that matters. I'm sure that sort of thing happens all over the place. The sort of people who would hire workers illegally are also the sort of people who would lie to them and say it's all legal. Work without authorization, get caught, get arrested and deported. Happens every day in countries a…

It happens enough in China that it’s a common occurrence. Enforcement of Chinese law makes the employee culpable, not the employer, so the employers see no reason to stop doing that to each new crop of naive foreigners.

So, this one incident isn’t unusual or remarkable and certainly isn’t a reason to avoid tourism in the country.
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