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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

231–240 of 433 posts

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer "Working at love" to "Falling in love" - it addresses both of those "lies"

I prefer "Working at love" to "Falling in love" - it addresses both of those "lies" But that takes out quite a bit of the romanticism out of it, doesn't it?

Not if it works.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#232
regarding dying: One of the most vivid memories I have from childhood is the time my father told me he was going to die. It was quite simple, he said, "someday I will die, when I die, here is what I want you to do...." Its one of those things that shaped my whole view of the world, I think I has 10 or 11. Its more amazing to me now that I have a son, that he had the courage to be so honest.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#233
After living in suburbia for 23 years (and finally getting out this month, thank "God") I can attest to most of this. One thing PG doesn't mention is that some people flat never grow out of the idyllic view of the world that this segregated space presents OR become so impossibly jaded that they're damaged beyond all repair.

One friend of mine managed to have both of these happen. Not only does he have an idyllic view of the world, at least in how it _should_ be, but he's also become extremely jaded, having found out that most of his views are wrong (despite still clinging to them). These are often entirely contradictory. For example, he believes in true love and that if you _truly_ love someone you could never, ever do anything to hurt them. On the other hand, he's seen enough relationships and enough cheating and other "nastiness" that he's jaded to the point that he believes (his words) "all women are whores."

I would argue that you have less of a chance of becoming extremely jaded if you grow up in a societal sub-section that neither attempts to hide the gruesome truths of the world from youth nor presents them on every street corner. In my humble opinion, suburbia is too close to the former extreme.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#234
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "sprawl" might be a more descriptive term for what you're reacting negatively to. Boston has lots of suburbs that don't fit your description. (BTW, suburb's etymology is not tree-related.)

Yeah to me suburb means tract housing. Does Boston have suburbs that aren't tract housing? (I said tree related because every suburban neighborhood I can think of has a tree related name... "Willow Springs" "Lone Elm Estates" "Pine Ridge" etc.)

A more general version of this I once heard (mostly in jest) was that "suburban neighborhoods are named after the part of nature that was destroyed to make the neighborhood." Mostly this includes various flora, although geographical descriptors such as "silver creek", "meadowmont", etc., are also used.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#235
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is trying to deny that Curie gets a little more attention in the school curriculum and the popular mind just because she's a woman, but I think the point asnyder was making is that she at least has the distinction of being a great scientist, unlike George Washington Carver who (and I had to look him up, since having not been educated in the US I'd never really heard of this guy) doesn't seem to b…

We aren't talking about the users of this board, we are talking about the average American who went through the public education system. 99.9% of them have heard of George Washington Carver, but not of Onsager and Landau.

Oh, I interpreted "almost no one reading this knows..." as referring to the users of this board.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#236
PG: "I think they've deliberately avoided learning about certain things. Certainly I do. I used to think I wanted to know everything. Now I know I don't."

Can you give us some examples of things you don't want to know and avoid learning about? Also, you must already have some idea of what horrible truths you might discover if you learned further, so can you give us a general idea of what those are?

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is ESPECIALLY dangerous if you (or your kids) are smart. If you're fairly smart, then school is easy. It's easy, so you never fail, so you never understand that many things (including most worth doing) are hard." Add to that parents who keep telling their smart kids how they expect them to do well, that they can be and do anything they want in life, etc., and the amount of personal disappointment these kids fac…

I've taken great care (and gotten my wife on board too) to change the way we praise our older girl. When she does something new, we no longer say "Wow, you're so smart!" - we say "Wow, that was great how you worked hard and kept trying until you succeeded!".

In case others need some help persuading, here is the link to that recent Scientific American article to that effect ( http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-secret-to-raising-sm... )

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#238
post #26
post #4

My least favorite pg essay. It's too easy to generalize about parenting, and so little of this essay applies to me. 1. Raising a kid in the city, and quite happily. 2. No prohibitions on swears in my house. Just at Grandma's, and only because it would offend her, not because swearing is inherently bad. 3. He goes to a school where they only teach you how to read, write, and do basic math. Everything else is a child-l…

For their own sake, don't let your kids be vegetarian until they're at least 16, that's the worst disservice you could ever do them. I speak as a vegetarian myself, but you've got to be pragmatic. Your kids need animal protein right up until their brains are done developing. It doesn't have to be very much animal protein, as little as a teaspoon a day does the trick, but there is no artificial or vegetable substitute…

Counterexample: A significant fraction of Indians are vegetarian. They seem to be doing ok in the brain development department.

Are there confounding factors? Sure... but calling it child abuse seems a bit much.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#239
post #4

My least favorite pg essay. It's too easy to generalize about parenting, and so little of this essay applies to me. 1. Raising a kid in the city, and quite happily. 2. No prohibitions on swears in my house. Just at Grandma's, and only because it would offend her, not because swearing is inherently bad. 3. He goes to a school where they only teach you how to read, write, and do basic math. Everything else is a child-l…

My least favorite pg essay.

I agree; it's even worse than the one on philosophy.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#240
post #22

Does it count as a 'lie' if it is believed by the parent? The reason that parents don't want kids to swear is because they genuinely believe that it is wrong for some reason. The don't know the reason themselves, and so break the rule and become hypocrites, but they still believe that it is wrong and want their children to do better than they did. With regard to group identity (and religion,) most parents actually ad…

I teach my child not to swear because OTHER adults think there's something wrong with it. I truly don't give a fuck, but I don't want my son to be banned from his best friend's house because his mom heard him say "fuck."

As someone who's considered this tactic (I'm some years away from having children, but planning seems like a good idea), I'm interested in how that's working out. Have you ruined cursing for your kid as some people imply this tactic would?
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