China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row • Hacker News Board

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#181

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #130

onetimemanytime wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious...is your wife from a country that is not on good relations with USA? Have you traveled to the likes of Iran, Syria etc? Do you think your name has the equivalent of an asterik next to it? They have so many people to process that unless you "piss them off" (as judged by them) and you are a US citizen with all docs in order they don't usually pick on people.

She is from China, hence all of my trips there. I don’t think I set off any red flags. I know they don’t usually pick on people, and haven’t picked on me or my family aside from that one incident, but the odds of being picked on by USCIS are way higher than the odds of being picked on by Chinese police as a foreign tourist.

I got searched a lot by customs in Seattle on my trips from Beijing when I started working there. I think they were looking for pirated DVDs or something; joke was on them since my bag was always mostly empty coming to the USA (I would fill it up coming back since shopping in the states was much cheaper than in China). They weren’t rude though, I found it just annoying to be searched.

Chinese police...well, I mean, there is crap you have to put up with as a foreigner. Finding the right amount of paper work to register at the local PSB (and sometimes needing to drag your landlord along), and having to re-register after a foreign trip. Then the random checks when they come to your apartment to check your paper work... Chinese police aren’t bad by any means, but if you are a foreigner living in China, there will be some friction.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#182

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #133

desireco42 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are uniquely lucky person and probably by other responses you can see how rare is experience like yours. While I never had huge problems on the border, it is always unpleasant experience and what they can do to you is so overproportional to things you can be seen at fault. My mother in law sneaked an orange in our suitcase, for the kids. I was charged $150 or $300(not sure anymore) for it and put on some list. Th…

Right, they’re usually not outright bad, but they’re certainly not welcoming. To put it in perspective, I’d much rather go to the DMV than go through American immigration controls, and the DMV workers are way nicer.

I would rather go through American immigration controls than to wait for anything at ICBC (a state owned bank in China). There goes an entire afternoon of pure misery.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#183

Post by bilbo0s » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

ardy42 wrote: post #111

simonh wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This almost certainly has nothing to do with changing Canadian behavior, it's about domestic politics. Canada/USA kicked one of ours, so we're going to kick 20 of theirs. They need to be seen to be doing it. The fact that it won't work and is counterproductive doesn't matter.

> This almost certainly has nothing to do with changing Canadian behavior, it's about domestic politics. Canada/USA kicked one of ours, so we're going to kick 20 of theirs. They need to be seen to be doing it. The fact that it won't work and is counterproductive doesn't matter. Is CCTV or other state-run outlets making a big deal about this death sentence and the other Canadian arrests? Is it portraying them as retal…

It doesn't have to.

Did anyone need to tell anyone on HN that it was retaliation?

I've been saying this since they first arrested the Huawei lady, everyone is an outlaw right now. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of laws on the books in most nations. (Especially China and the US.) There is just no way that a regular person with no resources can be certain that he or she is not in violation of one of them. (In fact, it's a virtual certainty that we all are in violation of some law.) So we can be legally arrested for the violation of laws we were likely unaware of at any time. (Not that the subject of the article was unaware of the criminal nature of his actions.)

Point being, if you are not a bigshot with a lot of clout, I would strongly urge you to urgently consider business models that allow you to operate at a distance from Asia. You don't want to be the pathetic slob of a patsy sitting in an Asian prison for 15 years because China and the US want to have some stupid argument to see who has the biggest breasts. It's just not worth it.

(BTW, the same goes for the average Chinese person by the way. I'd strongly urge you to do business at a distance from North America. There's no since in spending the rest of your youth learning street slang in an American prison.)

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#184

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #142

learc83 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my point. The point is that in a country like China following the law as written is not a defense, and it's likely not even possible. Your best bet is to keep your head down and follow common practices.

Is your point that her failure to comply with work visa rules was actually the right thing to do, and thus her punishment for it is unfair?

Chinese work visa rules contain requirements like you must do P and you can’t do P. Compliance is impossible given the contradiction. Instead, you need to go with the flow like everyone else, China is not a rule of law country, they will just use the law on you if they don’t like you (and given the way the laws are written, you are necessarily breaking something).

It is also important to read sources like https://www.chinalawblog.com if you want to survive in China long term.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#185

Post by stochastic_monk » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:15 PM UTC

scrumper wrote: post #57

rrggrr wrote: post #23

Chinese leadership doesn't want Meng Wanzhou to talk, revealing the full extent of Huawei misdeeds. The new sentence for Schellenberg is - I believe - a message of solidarity for Meng's consumption and less an attempt to manipulate the Canadian justice system. Keep in-mind Shellenberg was sentenced to 15 years. A re-sentencing like this is unusual and experts say manipulated. The sooner Meng is extradited to the US,…

A message of solidarity, which when you unwrap it contains a subtle threat.

How subtle a threat is a death sentence?

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#186

Post by spunker540 » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

dpratt wrote: post #84

bauhw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the tourism in China is domestic. Foreigner shouldn't have white cards on the law because of tourism, that's arrogant and unhealthy. I was afraid of China because of these random news. But when I finally went there in September, I was surprised as all the internet fear mongering was wrong. When you read your local newspaper and see a murder, are you afraid to go out ? No because it's an outlier, as is the case…

Your account is three minutes old and this is your first (and only) comment. Additionally, your grammar indicates that you’re not a native English speaker. I’m not typically a tinfoil hat type of person, but I, at least, have a heavy amount of skepticism towards your comment. Bluntly, it reads like it was taken directly from some pre-approved list of PRC propaganda.

I don’t think PRC propaganda would so blatantly invite people to come visit but keep their mouths shut while visiting. They probably wouldn’t promote that they police speech so heavily.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#187

Post by factsaresacred » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #165

factsaresacred wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deng Xiaoping, the Chinese leader who led China's market reform, had a saying along the lines of “hide your strength and bide your time”. Xi Jinping appears to believe China's time has come and you're seeing the results: they're behaving like the authoritarian and petulant bullies that they've always been. Personally I think this behaviour is gift. For too long we've been fed the narrative of China's 'peaceful rise'…

> In the decades to come, making China a superpower will be looked upon as one of the most foolish things The West has ever done. This assumes this is something the west did. Or that this is something the west should have prevented. By trading with China the west certainly accelerated growth. But let's be clear hundreds of millions of people have been pulled up from extreme poverty -- overall I think that's a good th…

True, China's rise has been beneficial for hundreds of millions - it's pretty much a miracle and China deserves a lot of credit.

I just believe that all those that called the USA a reckless superpower ain't seen nothing yet.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#188

Post by aiisjustanif » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #28

CydeWeys wrote: post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

>Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence.

There's a huge difference, from a human rights stand point for non-violent crimes there is a very noticeable difference.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#189

Post by pseudolus » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63

rando444 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, you'll note that he was already arrested and convicted before all of this began. It's his sentencing that is being used to "make an example". Clearly this is done for political reasons to "send a message" .. and judges in the US routinely use sentencing as a means to do the same. The only thing here is the disconnect between the harsh sentencing and the perceived reasons for it. I mean, you'r…

> judges in the US routinely use sentencing as a means to do the same American judges are fiercely independent. Where “messaging” is concerned it’s within the context of deterring future crime, not messaging to foreign states.

Not as independent as you would believe. The number of applications judges actually refuse for search warrants and wiretaps is miniscule. All too often they act merely as extensions for police departments.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#190

Post by daveFNbuck » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #93

gpm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a convicted drug dealer, that's little comfort when other people like the random teacher [0] and entrepreneur [1] they arrested were not. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-sarah-mciver-detained... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-officials-meet-wit...

According to your link, the teacher was employed illegally. It's common for students and other people without work permits to be offered positions as English teachers where the only requirement is being born in North America. The employers usually gloss over the illegality or claim that the laws are not enforced. That's been true in the past, but as that teacher had to learn, it can change anytime. So my generalized…

> So my generalized advice is to comply with the law instead of relying on lack of enforcement.

How many years should I spend studying Chinese law before I can be sufficiently sure I'm complying with it?

> They can still get you for "national security" reasons, but it's much less likely if you aren't a big fish.

Isn't the point of this discussion that people who aren't otherwise big fish are being used as political pawns due to their nationality?