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China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

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Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#71
post #28
post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

Either China is doing this so they can have something to retreat on that seems gracious and careful (i.e., it's a complete ploy) or they're completely misreading Canadian sentiment. Canadians tend to give and give and bend and bend, but it really comes to it they snap in a way that I don't think the Chinese understand.

We have way more leverage over China than they have over us. We sell them commodities. They sell us electronics. You know what's the one good thing about commodity sales? Fungibility. If we start banning Chinese phones we'll buy American ones come in instead. If they ban Canadian grain it will be less efficient, but the world will shift around and that grain will be sold to someone. If they ban our wood, it will be less efficient, but we can make our own furniture or sell wood to Europe to replace the wood China is buying from elsewhere.

And if push every really came to shove there is a lot of Chinese owned property in Canada. Foreign ownership taxes can go way, way up.

It's a complete misread of the situation by them. We have extradition treaties with the USA. Our society runs via a rule of law. They're going to turn the entire Canadian business and political community against them if they keep this up. Take it up with the Americans for fucks sake. Even Maxime Bernier has walked back his pledge for a Chinese-Canadian trade agreement.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#72
post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

Related links:

Thirteen Canadians have been detained in China since Huawei executive’s arrest, says Ottawa https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-thirteen-ca...

China says detained Canadian Michael Kovrig doesn't have diplomatic immunity https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-says-detained-canadian-m...

You shouldn't be going to a country where they don't even respect diplomatic immunity

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at risk of sounding like an edgy libertarian, what do you think is the difference between a government and a gang with internal rules?

Properly governments operate by the consent of those they govern. Gangs rule territory and the people within it almost strictly by violence. The closest similar in governments is a dictatorship, which must rule by the constant arbitrary application of violence to keep people terrified. A proper government operates by the peaceful consent - representative government, democratic systems, constitutional rights protectio…

you had to use the qualifier "proper" four times in that comment, to the point where it's basically a no true scotsman argument. the "proper government" you describe is a pretty specific kind that has really only existed at scale in the west for a few hundred years. states in the rest of the world and through most of history seem to satisfy most of your criteria for gangs.

i admit it's a silly argument to claim there is no difference between modern states and gangs, but it also seems problematic when your notion of a "proper government" only includes Western style constitutional republics.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#74

It's interesting to me how much China is behaving very much like a "gang", like the Crips or Bloods from the 80's. "You take one of ours, we'll grab some of yours." Doesn't matter what the reasons for the grabs are, it's just posturing. It's sad when you're international relations are at the level of hoodlums.

That's always the case. Interpreting international relations as spats between gang members (or 8 year-olds) clarifies a lot of things.

The analogy works for many US states and even some city politics as well. There's just less bloodshed than when real street gangs fight.

Remember that limo that crashed and killed 20-ish people? The NTSB and the State Police gang are still fighting each other over who's turf it is.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#75
post #47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was already a convicted drug trafficker. I don’t see any indication that his original 15-year sentence was improper. It is possible that he was falsely convicted, of course, but I don’t know that this is more likely in China than elsewhere. Suddenly changing his sentence to death is rather suspicious, but at least for me it doesn’t make a huge difference compared to a 15-year sentence. Random anecdote: I just got…

He was a convicted drug dealer, that's little comfort when other people like the random teacher [0] and entrepreneur [1] they arrested were not. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-sarah-mciver-detained... [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-officials-meet-wit...

That random teacher had some visa problem and was quickly deported. That’s totally normal in most countries.

The entrepreneur is a high profile person playing a very political game with business in North Korea. It does sound like his arrest was unjust, but it doesn’t indicate anything for regular folks like me. His story just reinforces my policy of “stay the fuck away from North Korea.”

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#76
post #8

The moment anyone starts using a death row felon as a bargaining chip, the death sentence turns into a political murder.

True but taking drugs to Asia is generally a death sentence, anything less is usually due to a diplomatic favor or bargaining.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always had a pleasant experience returning home. I travel 200 days in a year and never have I had a bad experience during US Immigration. In fact, I look forward to “Welcome home” from an officer although now it’s more expedited with the automated passport control and they hardly take more than 20 seconds to let you go. I am curious of your bad experience, can you tell us more? Edit: I do not look like a typical…

Maybe it is different when you don't _look_ like you're a US citizen.

I look very close to an Arab person than I look like a typical US Citizen. My friends joke if I should get rid of my facial hair for the expediency of immigration. I’ve always been treated well and this goes for vast number of Americans and Foreigners that enter US.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#78

If he is not Canadian, would it be different for such drug case?

If he was not Canadian and the 2 countries weren't on good terms, he may have gotten the death sentence in 2014 instead of just 15 years.

Even 1/4kg (let alone 200kg) of meth is a death sentence in most Asian countries.

Canada choosing to enforce illegal unilateral sanctions against Iran means no more kid gloves for Canadian citizens.

I hope it was worth it...

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#79
post #11
post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

I don't think that tourism is as much of a big deal to China as you think, and additionally I've got a feeling that most potential tourists wouldn't be aware of this news item or could dismiss it as "those people probably did something stupid, it won't apply to me"

But this doesn't apply to just tourists, this applies to all foreign visitors including the business people who drive Chinese economy.

If the business people start avoiding China, there impact on it's already slowing economy would be devastating.

Re: China sentences Canadian man to death in drug case linked to Huawei row

#80
post #4

At this point I think I'm too afraid to ever go to China. You can't get justice there, and you can be swept up into some stupid diplomatic spat. Don't they realize how short-sighted this is? This is incredibly harmful to tourism.

News we get about China is heavily biased, and it taints our perspective.

There's people who won't travel to the US because they hear daily news of someone getting shot there, and I think that's on a similar position on the reasonable/ridiculous scale.

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