The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#91

Post by echevil » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:40 AM UTC

johnnyb3 wrote: post #24

the_duke wrote: post #6

As far as I know the Chinese book market is heavily censored. I'd be curious about how this affects Chinese authors, and if and how they have to limit the topics and the creativity of their writing due to this.

I read Liu Cixin's trilogy cover to cover about a year ago. Many references to Western thought including the Bible, social topics, and a surprising (for me) amount of diversity injected into the plot line. Grand and sweeping, it's great Sci Fi literature. It's hard to imagine that it is the result of any significant censorship. I found it a fascinating glimpse into the modern Chinese way of thinking.

Sci-Fi novels are generally less impacted by censorship as they are undoubted considered as fictions. References to religion, social topics etc. are not a focus of censorship

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#92

Post by int_19h » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:41 AM UTC

I have only read "Three-Body Problem", and I found it to be atrocious writing on pretty much all levels. Language-wise, it was more cliched and wooden than many fanfics I've read. Character development is non-existent, and most of the characters are very shallow and only exist to advance the plot. The plot itself, aside from the basic idea of a three-body system with life, was also very boring - the only part of it that I actually looked forward to continue reading was the Cultural Revolution flashbacks. And then there's the whole sci-fi part of it, which was beyond ridiculous - sentient elementary particles etc.

I still don't understand how that book gets so many good reviews, and especially don't understand people comparing it with Heinlein. Those reviews were the only reason why I forced myself to read it all the way through, and it still feels like some elaborate hoax, or accidentally ending up in some postmodernist art convention by mistake.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#93

Post by jayalpha » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:42 AM UTC

Long overdue. When South Korea and Japan have super interesting Sci-Fi books and movies (e.g. Korean Bladerunner "Natural City"), why not China? I am glad China is coming along.

Since I learn Mandarin, feel free to recommend Chinese movies. (I am trying to read 三体 already, don't need more books).

I start with the first (non-scifi) movie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Breaker_(film)

Please recommend more Chinese movies if you can

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#94

Post by int_19h » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

demilicious wrote: post #53

Jerry2 wrote: post #34

Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he ma…

Completely disagree. The science was pretty good, for a pop audience, but there was zero character development - beyond Luo Ji, zero characters develop in the _entire series_. I don't want to spoil anything, of course, but you can pretty much decide the rest of the series based on what I've already written. Extremely disappointing.

I'd disagree that the science was good, even for a pop audience. It reads very much like somebody got a bunch of random "cool" scientific concepts, and then proceeded to treat them as deus ex machina devices without much understanding of the underlying physics.

Just to give one example, at one point the first book features an integrated circuit somehow "etched" on the surface of a stretched-out elementary particle. And that's not just a random curiosity, but a key plot device, without which said plot collapses.

I can't in good conscience call this hard sci-fi (which is how the book is usually advertised).

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#95

Post by echevil » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #9

BurningFrog wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of western books on that. Hopefully Chinese SF can deal with some western neglected or taboo topics!

Such as? Edit: especially curious about which topics folks think might be considered taboos in Western science fiction.

I found western science fictions tends to promote heroism in some way, and whatever obstacle the main character faces, they fight off their enemies in the end. Chinese novels indeed feel different in many ways.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#96

Post by erinnh » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

stone-monkey wrote: post #80

Jerry2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? I was not a huge fan of the first book either but saw the potential. Second book, The Dark Forest, is the greatest of the three (IMO anyway). Third book is also amazing. Definitely 'endure' reading through the first one and then you'll be rewarded with 2nd and 3rd.

The second is my favorite by far as well, but I find it funny how it's described as amazing Sci-Fi when I have to describe the plot. Half the book is spoilers The result of granting a nerd all the resources of the Earth at his disposal. He promptly uses it to find the perfect waifu and seduces her in his idyllic European villa. That's not Sci-Fi; That's a power fantasy as old as time.

You described like 90% of Chinese webnovels.

I still read some of them from time to time, but theyre all basically the same.

Interesting to see how that translates to actual hard-copy books as well.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#97

Post by askmike » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:51 AM UTC

beambot wrote: post #88

zone411 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your tastes require solid character development then sure. But other people might enjoy a book more for its plot or ideas. There are books (especially in science fiction), movies, and TV shows that are widely recognized as very good without a lot of character development.

To be "best of all time", it definitely needs all three: ideas, plot, & characters.

Not according to everyone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#98

Post by int_19h » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 6:58 AM UTC

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #32

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liu Cixin already covers this in his well-known trilogy. Also, Folding Beijing is an award winning short story encompassing all three things plus class strife, written by a Chinese author.

Soviet censorship used to be less heavy on science fiction then on other subjects. is that true for China as well?

Still plenty heavy though. Infamously, one of Strugatsky's books was censored because it described an alien totalitarian society ruled by "The Unknown Fathers"; the censors demanded that the label be changed, among other things. Then there was Efremov, who had trouble publishing some of his stuff at all, despite it being heavily ideologically communist.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#99

Post by int_19h » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:00 AM UTC

andrenth wrote: post #23

CptFribble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the primacy of individualism/freedoms as the only path to collective prosperity? Like, what if the Chinese model really is the best way to run a country (not an endorsement, btw)? Not "taboo," persay, but it's something thing that's not really seriously considered by most westerners (not the ones I know, at least).

But collectivism is widely popular in the west, no?

To some extent - but it is also explicitly contrasted with individual freedoms (presented as a good thing), and limitations on those freedoms have to be justified and rationalized in far more detail than "social harmony".

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#100

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:26 AM UTC

stone-monkey wrote: post #80

Jerry2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? I was not a huge fan of the first book either but saw the potential. Second book, The Dark Forest, is the greatest of the three (IMO anyway). Third book is also amazing. Definitely 'endure' reading through the first one and then you'll be rewarded with 2nd and 3rd.

The second is my favorite by far as well, but I find it funny how it's described as amazing Sci-Fi when I have to describe the plot. Half the book is spoilers The result of granting a nerd all the resources of the Earth at his disposal. He promptly uses it to find the perfect waifu and seduces her in his idyllic European villa. That's not Sci-Fi; That's a power fantasy as old as time.

May reflect on how different people read things differently. I agree that a lot of pages are spent on what you've just described, but to me it was a weird and minor plot point, and I never mention it because I don't see how it's worth mentioning.

The game-theoretic aspects of the book, on the other hand, and the final comeback of aforementioned nerd, are something I like to point out when summarizing this book.