Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens • Hacker News Board

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#41

Post by SamReidHughes » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

bognition wrote: post #39

pergadad wrote: post #35

Seems this reflects to a large degree societal values and current debates rather than the"real" impact. Eg US has a lot bigger inequality and higher proportion of destitute people than most of Western/Northern Europe, so the only way to explain the German & Swedish vs US numbers would be by pointing to the values/expectations and ongoing discourse. China... You have got to wonder is it that the past was so bad? That…

> China... You have got to wonder is it that the past was so bad? That people aren't aware of how bad problems of eg corruption are? Or are they too scared to say their true opinion ..? I imagine it's more about the citizens feeling like the government and its leaders have a strong vision and mission for the future of china. I think the same thing can be seen with the M.A.G.A. movement. Lots of people are ignoring pr…

The reason people broke for Trump was because he actually represented their interests, unlike the Democrats or the GOP. The problems of crime, illegal immigrants competing for jobs, and trade with poor countries, all drive down the quality of life of the working class American.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#42

Post by gruez » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #33

ciguy wrote: post #6

No surprise that countries with the most oppressive internet surveillance and censorship also rank highly in self reported satisfaction. Chinese citizens probably got a boost to their social credit score for answering positively on this survey. I was just in Beijing and Shanghai for a few weeks and almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future. So this survey is…

There are techniques to ask sensitive questions on a survey without implicating individual respondents and still obtain useful answers on the aggregate [1]. I can only imagine Ipsos, being a survey firm, would have used some of these techniques. I would be careful about generalizing from anecdata. Unless the people you talk to come from every strata in society and your sample is representative, your conclusion may be…

>I can only imagine Ipsos, being a survey firm, would have used some of these techniques.

You're giving them too much credit. Unless this was explicitly mentioned in the methodology (there's a methodology section at the end, and it's not there), I'm going to assume that the questions were directly asked.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#43

Post by you_owe_me » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 3:08 PM UTC

ppod wrote: post #34

thatoneuser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

>People in cults also say they’re doing fine... Yep, and people in religions say they're doing fine. Some of them probably are doing fine. I admit that this survey could be biased because of people being afraid of their answers being monitored, and also that people in a country like China are probably somewhat brainwashed by the censorship in the media. But you have to keep your mind open to the possibility that a hu…

I am sure if you ask any current or past tirant, all of them will tell you that they just want a "more peaceful, orderly, and efficient society". Hell, even Genghis Khan would say that

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#44

Post by stevespang » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

ciguy wrote: post #6

No surprise that countries with the most oppressive internet surveillance and censorship also rank highly in self reported satisfaction. Chinese citizens probably got a boost to their social credit score for answering positively on this survey. I was just in Beijing and Shanghai for a few weeks and almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future. So this survey is…

EXACTLY.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#45

Post by marcosdumay » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 3:31 PM UTC

As a Brazilian, the one thing that gives me some confidence that things will get better is the low confidence people display on those studies.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#46

Post by ciguy » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #26

ciguy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by your government for saying otherwise.

How would the US government punish someone who complains about poverty and inequality in the states?

I'm not talking about the Americans, I'm talking about the Chinese saying things are going well, which is what the first part of the comment I'm replying to was referring to. Then they shoehorned Americans into the argument for some reason. I'm saying that I doubt this is just a matter of the Chinese being blind to the issues in China. It's a matter of them bring unwilling to risk speaking out.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#47

Post by Tsubasachan » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

mdpye wrote: post #15

thatoneuser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand. As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said exactly that.

Here is an observation that I have made: its always the worst countries that are the most patriotic. Nobody pledges allegiance to the flag in the Netherlands or Norway.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#48

Post by iforgotpassword » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

ciguy wrote: post #22

tluyben2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future That is currently the same in every country I talked to citizens. Not a very good way of measuring. Your observations about China might very well be correct, but this is not an interesting point imho. When I speak to my friends in China they worry about the economy but they do actually believe their country is goin…

You're missing the point. I should have left the anecdote out as it's clearly distracting from what I really wanted to get across. I'm saying that this type of poll is never going to be accurate in an authoritarian regime where citizens know they're being watched. The anecdote was just an observation and as such should of course be taken with some skepticism.

They didn't miss the point. Yes your anecdote is "meh" because the economy being about to crash doesn't necessarily mean you think your country is going in the wrong direction. But claiming you won't get an honest answer from those people seems just as flawed. It's a pretty general question. If you download the PDF you'll see there were a bunch of more precise questions asked and in some of them China did rank Quite high, like the environment one.

I'd actually argue that just claiming Chinese people are brainwashed would be a better explanation, but as has been said in other comments here, I think it's mostly that they have very different priorities in life. For example, privacy traditionally never has been as an important issue even before the internet and everything, so things like that social credit system just don't appear as crazy to them as to us.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#49

Post by zachguo » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

mathieubordere wrote: post #27

What worries me is that global warming is not one of the five major worries. Of course I understand that when you're unemployed, struggling to make ends meet, global warming is the least of your concerns.

Take a look at the updated 2018 version.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#50

Post by daureg » Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

tuukkah wrote: post #8

There are newer results from September here: https://www.ipsos.com/en/what-worries-world-september-2018

seems it's updated quite regularly https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/what-worries-the-worl... (and that the yellow vest movement didn't improve France optimis :D )