Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

ipsos.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 71 posts

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#21

Post by ciguy »

shanghaiaway wrote: post #11
ciguy wrote: post #6

No surprise that countries with the most oppressive internet surveillance and censorship also rank highly in self reported satisfaction. Chinese citizens probably got a boost to their social credit score for answering positively on this survey. I was just in Beijing and Shanghai for a few weeks and almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future. So this survey is…

Being a tourist is far from being an authority on a culture

When did I ever claim to be an authority on anything? I'm making the observation that citizens who know they're being surveilled online are unlikely to respond to this type of poll negatively, affecting the accuracy of the results.

I threw an interesting personal anecdote in there as an example but at no time did I make an authority claim. So I don't know what your point is.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#22

Post by ciguy »

tluyben2 wrote: post #12
ciguy wrote: post #6

No surprise that countries with the most oppressive internet surveillance and censorship also rank highly in self reported satisfaction. Chinese citizens probably got a boost to their social credit score for answering positively on this survey. I was just in Beijing and Shanghai for a few weeks and almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future. So this survey is…

> almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future That is currently the same in every country I talked to citizens. Not a very good way of measuring. Your observations about China might very well be correct, but this is not an interesting point imho. When I speak to my friends in China they worry about the economy but they do actually believe their country is goin…

You're missing the point. I should have left the anecdote out as it's clearly distracting from what I really wanted to get across. I'm saying that this type of poll is never going to be accurate in an authoritarian regime where citizens know they're being watched.

The anecdote was just an observation and as such should of course be taken with some skepticism.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#23

Post by ciguy »

mdpye wrote: post #15
thatoneuser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand. As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said exactly that.

Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by your government for saying otherwise.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#24

Post by erikstarck »

The note about Sweden seems a bit off. It is now January and we still don't have a government formed since the election in September. The politicians have all showed their worst sides in not getting along and the trust in them has plummeted. At the same time there are clear signs of a recession coming.

Things are as gloomy as a Bergman-movie in Sweden. Sort of.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#25

Post by yorwba »

thatoneuser wrote: post #14
tluyben2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near future That is currently the same in every country I talked to citizens. Not a very good way of measuring. Your observations about China might very well be correct, but this is not an interesting point imho. When I speak to my friends in China they worry about the economy but they do actually believe their country is goin…

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!”

Social credit is more than just a tool for oppression. (There's also more than one possible implementation currently in trial, but that applies to all of them.) Because the vast majority of Chinese citizens are not anti-government activists, any such survey will be dominated by those who can finally get a line of credit for their small business. Even a million Uyghurs in internment camps don't make a dent when you're just looking at average satisfaction.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#26

Post by yorwba »

ciguy wrote: post #23
mdpye wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand. As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said exactly that.

Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by your government for saying otherwise.

How would the US government punish someone who complains about poverty and inequality in the states?

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#29

Post by yostrovs »

yorwba wrote: post #25
thatoneuser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” Social credit is more than just a tool for oppression. (There's also more than one possible implementation currently in trial, but that applies to all of them.) Because the vast majority of Chinese citizens are not anti-government activists, any such survey will be dominated by those who can finally get…

The Uyghurs in prison were not available to participate in study. Nor to comment.

Re: Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens

#30

Post by yostrovs »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #19

The US results are strange. A lot fewer worry about healthcare and inequality/poverty than you would expect. In fact only Sweden worries less about the latter.

How many would you expect to worry? In a rich country with ample jobs and cheap food,I don't worry about it much either. I've seen poverty abroad, so maybe I just don't see what Americans call poverty as poverty.
Post reply on HN