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To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

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Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#41
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools just sort of happened at the behest of industrialists. There isn't actually that much thought put into the concept of schools much less all that follows from them. They are simply taken as granted despite the fact that they are a relatively recent invention. "The Founding Fathers in their wisdom decided that children were an unnatural strain on parents. So they provided jails called schools, equipped with tor…

School is not a recent invention. Public school is recent invention. Also, there is much thought put into schooling. Curriculum (what to teach), instruction (how to teach), school administration, etc. I am not saying schools are perfect, but claim schools are the same as jails, education is the same as torture, it's just bullsh*t.

> school is not a recent invention

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/freedom-learn/200808...

In relation to the biological history of our species, schools are very recent institutions. For hundreds of thousands of years, before the advent of agriculture, we lived as hunter-gatherers. In my August 2 posting, I summarized the evidence from anthropology that children in hunter-gatherer cultures learned what they needed to know to become effective adults through their own play and exploration. The strong drives in children to play and explore presumably came about, during our evolution as hunter-gatherers, to serve the needs of education. Adults in hunter-gatherer cultures allowed children almost unlimited freedom to play and explore on their own because they recognized that those activities are children's natural ways of learning.

In sum, for several thousand years after the advent of agriculture, the education of children was, to a considerable degree, a matter squashing their willfulness in order to make them good laborers. A good child was an obedient child, who suppressed his or her urge to play and explore and dutifully carried out the orders of adult masters. Such education, fortunately, was never fully successful. The human instincts to play and explore are so powerful that they can never be fully beaten out of a child. But certainly the philosophy of education throughout that period, to the degree that it could be articulated, was the opposite of the philosophy that hunter-gatherers had held for hundreds of thousands of years earlier.

With the rise of schooling, people began to think of learning as children's work. The same power-assertive methods that had been used to make children work in fields and factories were quite naturally transferred to the classroom.

In recent times, the methods of schooling have become less harsh, but basic assumptions have not changed. Learning continues to be defined as children's work, and power assertive means are used to make children do that work.

> schools are the same as jails, education is the same as torture, it's just bullsh*t.

Meant in jest.

"Don't let schooling interfere with your education."

- Mark Twain

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#43
post #9

>“It’s sad, but the good news is there's a simple intervention — don't give report cards on Friday.” Yeah that avoids the one instance of child abuse but that's not the big picture here. How is it that there are that many people that struggle to cope that this is common enough to show up in this research. I feel for both the parents and the children here. If something like grades are causing the parents to lash out a…

This reminds me of ads they ran in the UK about domestic violence going up when a team lost a football match. I’m not sure what to make of it. Are we going to have an ad for any and every generic stressor in this life? If a report card or sporting event is enough to induce a physical beating there are some more serious problems going on.

https://hyperallergic.com/450815/uk-national-centre-for-dome...

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is absolutely insane? The existence of "corporal punishment" or "physical abuse"? According to the quoted sentence ("prevent corporal punishment that crosses the line into abuse"), corporal punishment is not the same as abuse. The article also says: "Corporal punishment may include pain but is not supposed to result in injury; corporal punishment resulting in injury is physical abuse." So the line is whether the…

Yeah. What about punishment resulting in emotional injury? All that corporal punishment teaches is that it's OK for the powerful to punish the weak.

All punishment results in emotional injury. That's what punishment means...

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#45

Somewhat related, there was another article this week that mentioned kids (and parents) now get notifications sent over the phone of their grades: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/1/10/18174263/anxiety-... “As the retreat group started to tell me more about why they felt such a collective sense of stress and pressure, a few major themes emerged. All of them said they voluntarily get their grades pushed to their…

From another viewpoint, I spent a significant amount of time in high school reverse engineering and retrofitting grade update notifications onto our school's (well, School Loop's) existing gradebook, which I shipped as part of my app for accessing this system. For privacy reasons, I would not display any grades or scores in the notification itself, opting for something like "your grade in $course has changed". This gave students the chance to wait to see their new score, since they would have to actively tap on the notification.

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools just sort of happened at the behest of industrialists. There isn't actually that much thought put into the concept of schools much less all that follows from them. They are simply taken as granted despite the fact that they are a relatively recent invention. "The Founding Fathers in their wisdom decided that children were an unnatural strain on parents. So they provided jails called schools, equipped with tor…

School is not a recent invention. Public school is recent invention. Also, there is much thought put into schooling. Curriculum (what to teach), instruction (how to teach), school administration, etc. I am not saying schools are perfect, but claim schools are the same as jails, education is the same as torture, it's just bullsh*t.

There was also much thought put into phlogiston and epicycles.

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#47
post #9

>“It’s sad, but the good news is there's a simple intervention — don't give report cards on Friday.” Yeah that avoids the one instance of child abuse but that's not the big picture here. How is it that there are that many people that struggle to cope that this is common enough to show up in this research. I feel for both the parents and the children here. If something like grades are causing the parents to lash out a…

Serious answer: love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. This will solve the problem on every level.

I agree with that being the first and greatest commandment, but it's for individuals. What do we do as a society when other people do not keep that commandment—or more relevantly, the second, to love their neighbor as themselves? Where is the line where we intervene for the sake of others?

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#48
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we are kind of doing a disservice to children by even having grades K-8. I don't really see what the value is in having them. Parents over focus on it and seem to measure their own child's worth based on grades and children also seem to measure their own self worth based on grades. IMO there is no case where a child that young should be failing anything, if they are failing a class that young there is som…

I assume that you mean having grades in grades K-8, and not that schooling should not start until 9th grade. I went to a K-12 school for high school (transferred in at grade 9); and they didn't give any grades in K-8 [0]. Having said that, I do not think the concept of grades for younger students is inherantly bad, it is just that parents and students are terrible at receiving them. I assume you do see the value in r…

Wow I had no idea K-12s still existed. What was the profile / location of your school?

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#49
post #9

>“It’s sad, but the good news is there's a simple intervention — don't give report cards on Friday.” Yeah that avoids the one instance of child abuse but that's not the big picture here. How is it that there are that many people that struggle to cope that this is common enough to show up in this research. I feel for both the parents and the children here. If something like grades are causing the parents to lash out a…

> If something like grades are causing the parents to lash out at the kids it's a sign that the parents are struggling to cope.

I think that's starting from a mistaken premise. Why expect parents to cope? Parenting takes an amount of empathy and patience and care that many people simply do not have and will not have.

In pre-modern society the nuclear family made sense, but at what point do we say, being someone's biological source gives you no particular right to control their life and the task of guarding and raising children should actually be given to those who can do so humanely? Why try to retrain inhumane parents instead of just not subjecting kids to them in the first place?

If you look at the much bigger picture—children who are gay or trans, children who date outside their race, children born into cults or to antivaxxers, children born with disabilities that expect particularly uncommon levels of support from parents, etc. etc.—the problem is simply that we assue that your physiological ability to engage in tbe reproductive act means that you're fit to be a parent. There's zero reason to believe that.

Re: To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays

#50
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some feedback system is important, you need a mechanism to let the parents know Johnny is struggling and need something to help them. That said, letter grades are useless to gradeschoolers (K-5).

Letter grades are largely useless as an educational tool, even in high school – they provide delayed, coarse, not very actionable feedback, while inflicting a lot of unnecessary emotional stress/pain which directly interferes with learning. The real purpose of letter grades is largely bureaucratic and they are designed for the convenience of teachers and school administrators. What they are good for is sorting and la…

The argument for grades is "Well, I suffered through them, so should you".

We can look at engineering disciplines, medical at all levels, and many more. "Since I suffered, you should have to as well."

When we finally kill that idea, we can move forward with what real education is, and how to better measure it. Right now, we measure compliance and rule adherence, and we should instead be measuring understanding.

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