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SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

latimes.com

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Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#521

Post by FakeComments »

ambicapter wrote: post #456
roenxi wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly speaking, Capitalism says that the Capitalists get to choose which option they go with. In a system with healthy incentives, we might expect Option 1 to be the sensible capitalist equilibrium, because capital needs to be maintained and the builders/maintainers become the same people. Don't forget that, in theory, the workers can become capitalists themselves if they aren't getting a good share of the benefit…

You don't "become" capitalist, a capitalist has capital, and if you don't have any capital, you're not a capitalist.

I disagree.

As an example, someone who switches from working as a landscaper to running a landscaping business has switched from a worker role to a capitalist role — even though they likely spent less money doing so than a software engineer worker owns. Being a “capitalist” is defined by capitalizing ventures, not the mere volume of capital.

I would argue that the reason society has become so disequitable is that we’ve made it difficult to transition between worker and small capitalist — that is to say, that we’ve undermined small and lifestyle businesses.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#522

Post by Retric »

ben_w wrote: post #348
Retric wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX could quickly shrink by 10% via attrition and not highering new people. They can get rid of dead weight by firing people. This kind of small scale lay-off is mostly a stunt, or just sign of incompetence.

Downsizing via attrition means your losses are focused on those with both desire and ability to work elsewhere, and so you keep those who can’t or don’t want to. “Don’t want to leave” is good, “can’t get hired anywhere else” is bad, and the presence of the latter makes it more desirable to leave even places which used to be fun.

That’s another way of saying incompetence.

If you want to roll the dice on a new employee then fire the old one. This kind of 10% cut results in losing your best who don’t wait around and just start looking on day one. Worse, they often leave after your round of cuts as getting an offer is outside of your timeframe.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#523

Post by garmaine »

aey wrote: post #504
azernik wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500M was the size of the offering; as of 3 January, they had only managed to raise $273M https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1181412/000118141219...

They should open it to the public with a reg d/s. I would love to be able to invest into SpaceX.

That would endanger the long term plan of Martian colonization, which is not the most financially responsible thing to do. Elon is keeping SpaceX private so as to have some control over who invests, to make sure they’re onboard.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#524

Post by strangemonad »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #425
syntaxing wrote: post #410

It's not unsual to layoff 10% of your workforce in hardware companies but it is unusual for a "growing" company. To put in perspective Pratt and Whitney laid off about 10-15% a couple years ago when they were in between the phasing out of the old engine and ramping up the new engine. Sometimes companies are unlucky because there is a drought where the demand for the new stuff is lower than the demand of old stuff but…

It is normal to layoff about 5% per year, you trim the one in the 20 that is the weakest and it has positive, not negative effects. Going to 10% is a bit stretch, but still workable. In the last companies I worked, if up to 20% of the people left one day it would have an immediate positive impact on the performance, less complexity to deal with and more focus to work on real stuff.

This seems to be confusing attrition with layoffs.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#525

Post by Drdrdrq »

spaceandshit wrote: post #475
roedog wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Space X costs less than half than a ULA launch. I suspect that ULA spends that additional money on large sub-contracts to Boeing and Lockheed for the Delta and Atlas vehicles. This makes me think that when we add up the employees on the subcontracts the space X staffing number will be much more impressive in it's leanness. I hope they all join my company, we've got a lot of work they would find interesting. Wit…

Which company?

Probably Northrop Grumman [0]?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14689610

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#526

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

chucksmash wrote: post #485
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 weeks of pay as severance is insultingly horrible, even for very junior employees. If a company hopes to grow and be taken seriously as a professional workplace, you have to do much, much better than 8 weeks pay & benefits for severance. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level empl…

> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level employees, and at least 12 months of pay for senior employees. Simply turn down job offers when a company won’t offer this and take a longer time to find an offer at one of the (many) companies that will. Have you put this into practice? It'd…

Yes, I have absolutely put this into practice. I have encountered companies that have blanket policies about either low or no severance, and I simply reject any offer or request to continue negotiations without severance. This has certainly made job searches take longer and certainly left me feeling frustrated after investing time in take-home tests, on-site interviews and negotiations, only to learn that severance agreements weren’t possible in some cases.

But I gained a lot of experience regarding how to negotiate it and talk about it, and ultimately found that most companies are perfectly happy to negotiate it as part of the job offer.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#527

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #488
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 weeks of pay as severance is insultingly horrible, even for very junior employees. If a company hopes to grow and be taken seriously as a professional workplace, you have to do much, much better than 8 weeks pay & benefits for severance. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level empl…

I think most every job I've had as a developer would think it ridiculous for me to ask for severance. Severance is meant for high end positions where there's a large cost to the employee to switch jobs because of how illiquid management and executive roles can be. Developer jobs are extremely easy to switch between.

It’s wrong thinking like this that allows companies to continue omitting severance from many basic developer job offers. Meanwhile, if you don’t assume “it’s ridiculous” and actually ask for it, you find many companies are perfectly willing to negotiate it, even for junior level software engineering positions.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#528

Post by kurthr »

solotronics wrote: post #517
kurthr wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't buy the Carbon Fiber vs Stainless construction. They aren't used for the same thing (low weight structural stiffness vs heat conduction, radiation & appearance). From what I understand it was a water tank contactor that did the hopper in Boca Chica... and it will never face lanch/re-entry stresses. That won't replace anyone.

How will they inspect and test all the welds required... I am still shocked that the BFR is not carbon fiber.

It's just a hopper to test new methanol engines... it will never see flight.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#529

Post by kurthr »

theptip wrote: post #499
kurthr wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't buy the Carbon Fiber vs Stainless construction. They aren't used for the same thing (low weight structural stiffness vs heat conduction, radiation & appearance). From what I understand it was a water tank contactor that did the hopper in Boca Chica... and it will never face lanch/re-entry stresses. That won't replace anyone.

> They aren't used for the same thing The old BFR design had a large carbon-fiber hull, the new one has a stainless steel hull. Unless I'm missing your point, that's a major piece of the rocket that's no longer made with carbon fiber. (The giant molds that they were building for the BFR hull, for example, are now redundant.)

It's not for production, it's for testing and looking cool.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#530

Post by [deleted] »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #507
SeanBoocock wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That need not just be charity on SpaceX's part. The circumstances of the layoff sounds like it would trigger the WARN act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_Adjustment_and_Retraini... . If so, 60 days notice is a legal requirement, not beneficence on SpaceX's part.

The notice is a requirement. Not requiring them to do any work whatsoever for that time is beneficence.

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