If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP? • Hacker News Board

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#111

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #32

agumonkey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, there's just a tiny bit too much of real number knowledge required in SICP. I wasn't good enough to really derive newtonian method on my own. For someone looking to develop applications I believe it's completely off the map. HtDP requires no arithmetic from what I recall. Which makes it more focused. Now SICP was for EE doing software. I suggest to everyone to learn EE, even partially, it's surprisingly use…

> I wasn't good enough to really derive newtonian method on my own. There is an old SMBC comic highlighting this general issue in STEM where for some mysterious reason, mathematical theories that took at least a few scientific generations to figure out, with lots of bitter fighting among the giants of science about which conclusion we should accept as correct, are now being taught as if they are trivial to reproduce…

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Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#112

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

quickben wrote: post #69

pbh101 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/MIT-SAT-scores-GPA (First google result, I didn’t verify further) It is admittedly only a proxy, but the entrance SAT math scores for MIT students are 770 for the 25th percentile and 800 at the 75th percentile. Put another way: the test that is a helpful differentiator of intellectual ability of the general college population is not a good differentiator for the MIT populatio…

Raven's progressive matrices and similar are differentiator of intellectual ability. SAT scores correspond to time spent on chair doing homework.

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Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#113

Post by wikibob » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

While this topic is being discussed, what books do folks like for Data Structures and Algorithms?

And importantly, can you contrast why you chose the one you like over others you’ve worked through?

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#114

Post by philonoist » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #105

philonoist wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So for second flavor, what would you recommend with focus on smallness of language?

I have no idea. I have only read Thompson's Haskell: The Craft of Functional Programming and some old ML books I can't name. I have no idea if it's a good compared to other FP books.

You were very helpful in this discussion. Thank you. :)

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#115

Post by sanxchit » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

vesak wrote: post #60

I didn't find SICP good or bad, but utterly boring. In fact, so boring that I couldn't bring myself to finish even half of it in 3 separate tries. Perhaps I should've read it as my first programming book, but that time's long past. Anyone else had this problem? I'd gladly take tips on how to get over it, since I do honor classics and don't think I'm above them.

You're not alone. I forced myself to read through half the book before asking myself what was the point of solving essentially leetcode style problems using only tail-end recursion and glorified linked lists. At no point did I ever feel that the scheme language had any practical applications.

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#116

Post by smallnamespace » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

acbart wrote: post #84

Everyone on here is very excited about HTDP. You are mostly very smart people, and not representative of the typical CS student starting off. Many of you are driven and have rich STEM backgrounds that you draw upon. Therefore, I want to point out that there is no substantial evidence to prove most of the claims of "success" that the HTDP community claims, with regards to novice learners. There are certainly people wh…

> you believe that curriculum should work for everyone.

Maybe it would be possible to determine which teaching approach works best for a student and individualize/personalize, rather than having a one-size-fits-all curriculum for everyone?

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#117

Post by AlexeyBrin » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

kod wrote: post #47

wa1987 wrote: post #4

People who worked through HtDP: what are your impressions?

It's the best book I've found for actually teaching people how to solve problems using programming, rather than just learning semantics. I use it for continuing education at a company, the only complaint I've heard from people is that it's very deliberately paced. I do wish there was an equivalent that used a statically typed language, because the actual approach is very fundamentally based on types. I've spoken with…

> I do wish there was an equivalent that used a statically typed language

Not exactly an equivalent, but a very good book (that uses a statically typed language) is "Elements of ML Programming" by Ullmann.

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#118

Post by philonoist » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

charlysl wrote: post #104

I have found that the best way of learning the HtDP approach to program design, at least for me (I find the book itself a bit dry), are the EdX "How to Code" free moocs [1] [2]. The instructor is fantastic. It completely changed the way I program and design. If you like the approach and want to learn more, like, for instance, how to extend it to OO design, I list below links to several courses (most, except for the l…

I happen to best learn through video lectures more than reading.

Thank you for your effort. I am starting with these.

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#119

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

pbh101 wrote: post #46

mesaframe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source citing any or all of above properties?

http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/MIT-SAT-scores-GPA (First google result, I didn’t verify further) It is admittedly only a proxy, but the entrance SAT math scores for MIT students are 770 for the 25th percentile and 800 at the 75th percentile. Put another way: the test that is a helpful differentiator of intellectual ability of the general college population is not a good differentiator for the MIT populatio…

[deleted]

Re: If not SICP, then what? Maybe HTDP?

#120

Post by philonoist » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

superquest wrote: post #91

nubbins wrote: post #86

Working through SICP my main issue was the almost unbounded time commitment- like it will take you between a month to two years. I remember there was a trivial problem that took 5 minutes then apropos nothing the next problem bascially required you to invent the concept of numbers as functions in lambda calculus and required a two day diversion just to understand the answer. Even the best programmers I’ve known who’v…

This last week I took an in-person class where we covered almost all of the book: https://dabeaz.com/SICP.html The instructor David Beazley very skillfully weeded out all the non-essential parts and added one amazing exercise where we implemented the lambda calculus and, funny enough, the ycombinator. Highly recommend it for anyone who desires to learn this material, can't find the time, and is willing to pay $2500 f…

The links seems to be dead and $2500 makes me think the link is better off dead. Haha! On serious note, I'd like to read some materials from his side.