SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#281

Post by Too » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:55 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #114

viraptor wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still tell everyone immediately at the end of the day. Or just send the email on the weekend. You don't have to say you're going to do it first and keep everyone worried.

You can't when you're dealing with 6000+ people. Likely even the managers didn't know so as to avoid feeding the rumor mill. They'll now need to make up their minds about their reports whom they wouldn't mind losing.

Are you saying top executives selected 10% out of all 6000 employees without consulting their direct managers who to fire? That would be a random 10% sample at best. Obviously managers would be involved in deciding who is worth to keep or not.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#282

Post by wolco » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:02 AM UTC

nullifidian wrote: post #278

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

>If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. Companies are not created to take care of their employees. They are created to make profit and/or accomplish a societal goal. If a company is non-profit then it's just the latter. As someone from a post-communist state, it's plainly obvious to me that people on average don't work as well as they could if the threat of termination does not exist. My…

The threat of randomly being fired will cause many focused workers to change how they act. They stop trying to help each other, blame increases and internal politics dominates.

If this continues the remaining employees try to hire new employees with a fatal flaw so when the next wave comes they will be the first out.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#283

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:03 AM UTC

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

That's just being idealistic.

Why would someone ever hire if they wouldn't be able to terminate the contract if it's ever needed? And this goes both ways, I do want to be able to quit (with a "short" notice)

Other answers gave plenty of good reasons: employees underperform, projects change, companies close, etc

It's a job, not a marriage, and even those are becoming shorter.

Note I'm not proposing "at-will" employment, I don't think that is good as well (even if employers like it, I don't think it's good for overall labour relations)

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#284

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:05 AM UTC

kepano wrote: post #30

If you are affected by the layoffs in Los Angeles, working in software engineering (esp. on ERP and internal tools), UI/UX, or supply chain — my company, Lumi is hiring https://www.lumi.com/jobs

I would expect more companies to add their contact info here. Sounds like a very promising hiring lead!

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#285

Post by consumer451 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:09 AM UTC

roedog wrote: post #208

The SoCal aerospace job market is hot right now. The driver is multiple large program starts at multiple contractors who are competing for people. This should make it possible for everyone to land on their feet. (I've reached out to my former colleagues who left to join Space X) What's odd is why SpaceX is cutting staff with the new development underway on the larger rockets and the satellite business. I'm curious ab…

> What's odd is why SpaceX is cutting staff with the new development underway on the larger rockets and the satellite business. I'm curious about how they're going to increase development while cutting staff.

The oddness diminishes when you look at their open jobs listing [1], as it looks that they have >300 open positions.

[1] https://www.spacex.com/careers/list

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#286

Post by drieddust » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:09 AM UTC

nullifidian wrote: post #278

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

>If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. Companies are not created to take care of their employees. They are created to make profit and/or accomplish a societal goal. If a company is non-profit then it's just the latter. As someone from a post-communist state, it's plainly obvious to me that people on average don't work as well as they could if the threat of termination does not exist. My…

Termination due to non-performance on the job is entirely different from at will termination which can hit a performer and non performer alike.

You seems to imply employees are the resources to be used to achieve goals. I do not see an issue in this arrangement if Employees have the same negotiation power as the employer.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#287

Post by wolco » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

stupidcar wrote: post #33

whatshisface wrote: post #6

10% is a big fraction. How often do large, stable companies execute a layoff like that? Sometimes layoffs can be not so bad, for example when that's the company's way of clearing off the managers' firing wishlist without incurring legal trouble. However at 10% of the workforce, this may be a change of direction away from R&D and towards sitting on the falcon 9 and launching to LEO.

Maybe, maybe not. Consider it in terms of your own workplace: if you worked on a team of 10, and one person got laid off, would that seem so huge? I think the question is whether this round of layoffs is in response to an acute cash flow issue or just part of long-term financial prudency. They fact that they waited until after Christmas and are providing 8 weeks of pay and benefits makes me hopeful that it's the latt…

It is more like you work at a company with 10 people. One person is fired but that person happens to be hr. The remaining 9 somehow get payroll done but someone is always short.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#288

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #283

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

That's just being idealistic. Why would someone ever hire if they wouldn't be able to terminate the contract if it's ever needed? And this goes both ways, I do want to be able to quit (with a "short" notice) Other answers gave plenty of good reasons: employees underperform, projects change, companies close, etc It's a job, not a marriage, and even those are becoming shorter. Note I'm not proposing "at-will" employmen…

There are placees where termination for arbitrary reasons doesn’t exist (see e.g Sweden). Those economies still seem competitive.

If you lay off 10% because times are worse and there is less work, then interestingly you are more or less required to re-hire the same people when you hire again (typically that would be negotiated so you’d buy them out instead).

The 10% you fire also has to be the 10% last hired, you can’t fire the 10% worst performing (again, this can be negotiated so firing an older underperforming hire quickly becomes very expensive - think 1-2 years salary or similar)

Is this perfect? No. But it makes employers think hard about hiring for better or worse, and it means you plan far ahead to ensure you have enough work in bad times, and don’t go on a hiring spree in good times.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#289

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:13 AM UTC

fma wrote: post #254

sonnyblarney wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% is huge by any measure.

I work for GM (for now). 15% layoffs were announced before Christmas... No one knows when the ax will drop. Rumor is Monday or Tuesday. Moral is low and the office has been pretty damn quiet. Meanwhile we just raises earnings forecast today...

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#290

Post by fabianhjr » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 9:17 AM UTC

raquo wrote: post #277

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

There's at-will employment model on one side, and the Japanese Salaryman model on the other side (low vs high loyalty). As usual, the sweet spot is somewhere in between the extremes.

Where in that scale does a coop worker-owner fit?