SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#261

Post by paulie_a » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 7:58 AM UTC

sjburt wrote: post #215

mdorazio wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WARN only applies to notice, not to severance pay. As far as I know, even in a mass layoff situation in CA like this, they are not required to provide any compensation. You could look at it as "hey we're going to fire you in 60 days per WARN, so just stop working now and we'll pay you for that time" but it's not quite the same - they could just notify them, make them work the 8 weeks and not provide any actual severa…

Likely they would rather send people home and pay them than risk theft or sabotage.

While there have been cases of that the average person is going to fullfil their obligation and collect the check. Any manager that really is concerned about theft and sabotage in that scenario should not be a manager. Employees steal and sometimes sabotage while gainfully employed too.

Everyday the company is already risking that.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#262

Post by JKCalhoun » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:02 AM UTC

entity345 wrote: post #247

whatshisface wrote: post #6

10% is a big fraction. How often do large, stable companies execute a layoff like that? Sometimes layoffs can be not so bad, for example when that's the company's way of clearing off the managers' firing wishlist without incurring legal trouble. However at 10% of the workforce, this may be a change of direction away from R&D and towards sitting on the falcon 9 and launching to LEO.

In my experience, the larger the company the less painful it is to fire 10%. In large engineering organisations, laying off 10% makes no difference at all on anything apart from the ego of managers whose teams shrink. On the topic, wasn't Jack Welsh/GE that popularised the idea of firing the bottom 10% every single year? Not saying that this is necessarily a good idea but that shows the amount of slack in large organ…

Must be great for morale.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#263

Post by dmichulke » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #258

For comparison, DoD is reducing its medical workforce for 13%, 17,000 jobs. Makes total sense to me. I only work 12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week, so really, less than half-time. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/01/10/more-17000-un...

That's because the DoD is probably the most cash-strapped ministry of all ministries of all nations /s

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#264

Post by 7952 » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:06 AM UTC

ATsch wrote: post #212

fuddle wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think SpaceX isn't like most large, stable companies as their primary goal is the colonization of Mars.

If you ask the PR department or look at the "About Us" section of any company, you'll find some fantastical story how they're improving humanity by earning millions doing whatever they do too.

Sure, but you get impression that spacex is actually serious about its mission, unlike most companies with those kind of pages.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#265

Post by antpls » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:07 AM UTC

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons.

If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisions in the long-run.

Will the 10% of the employees be the ones who are already in the less comfortable financial and social situation in their private life ?

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#266

Post by computerex » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:08 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #62

stupidcar wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, maybe not. Consider it in terms of your own workplace: if you worked on a team of 10, and one person got laid off, would that seem so huge? I think the question is whether this round of layoffs is in response to an acute cash flow issue or just part of long-term financial prudency. They fact that they waited until after Christmas and are providing 8 weeks of pay and benefits makes me hopeful that it's the latt…

10% is huge by any measure.

I am not sure why you're getting downvoted. Imagine if Apple/iPhone lost 10% of its growth, people would start panicking. Context is extremely important. 10% of a dollar is not a lot of money, but 10% of a billion USD would be many times what I'd need for the rest of my life.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#267

Post by drusepth » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:10 AM UTC

deelowe wrote: post #210

entee wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at a company where the 1-1 firings occurred over a morning. I was fortunate to keep my job, but I can tell you it was a pretty awful day for those staying (obviously not as bad as for those leaving :(). There's no good way to do this, layoffs of this sort are awful. I actually am not sure this is better or worse. You have a horrible Friday night, with untold stress, but at least you're not sweating at your…

There is a right way to do this. You announce it to the staff and at the same time you let those affected know. It's best to do this at the end of the day. Telling people "you may or may not still have a job, you'll get an email within the next 72 hours" is ridiculous. So what happens if it's Monday morning and I didn't get an email? Am I still employed? What if there was a glitch? What if I show up and I'm escorted…

>So what happens if it's Monday morning and I didn't get an email?

You still have a job.

>Am I still employed?

Yes.

>What if there was a glitch?

This seems rare, and it seems like people would double check to ensure this doesn't happen (and if it did, to re-send an email).

>What if I show up and I'm escorted out?

Sounds awkward at worst, but now you know.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#268

Post by onetimemanytime » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:11 AM UTC

RachelF wrote: post #214

sonnyblarney wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% is huge by any measure.

Good ol' Roman army strategy of "Decimation", in 1 in 10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)

"SpaceX decimates its WorForce" would have been just as correct but then Swat Teams might have moved in :).

On topic, probably just cutting out the fat (I'm sure most companies can fire 10% and a month later very few would notice the difference). But then, why not move them to R&D? I doubt SpaceX has cash problems to fire (more or less) essential workers.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#269

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:12 AM UTC

Fomite wrote: post #195

rb666 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Look around you next time you're in the office, could you really not lose at least 1 of those 9 slackers around you?

I mean, if nothing else, 'decimate' has the meaning it has for a reason.

Its gravitas comes from indiscriminate killing, not from the number.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#270

Post by vasco » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 8:15 AM UTC

antpls wrote: post #265

I don't understand how anyone in the world accept such social contract of being laid off anytime for arbitrary reasons. If you create a company, you take care of it and all of its members. If you have to cut expenses because the company needs to be "leaner" then you cut the salaries starting from the top executives. Eventually you fire management, because the state of the company is in part the result of their decisi…

What about when people get comfortable and stop performing at initial levels. Or if you realize you have too much middle management?