SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#211

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #180

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've got to do it by email, how about "go back to your desks and check your work email" instead of "go home and stew about it for a while"? Extending the delay is sadistic.

And your usage of sadistic is hyperbolic. We don’t know the details, employees may have known before walking out the door.

> And your usage of sadistic is hyperbolic.

Obviously. It's still a shitty thing to do.

> We don’t know the details, employees may have known before walking out the door.

Huh? We have multiple SpaceX employees on Reddit saying they were told to go home and wait for emails. Some took hours, some are still waiting.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#212

Post by ATsch » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

fuddle wrote: post #197

whatshisface wrote: post #6

10% is a big fraction. How often do large, stable companies execute a layoff like that? Sometimes layoffs can be not so bad, for example when that's the company's way of clearing off the managers' firing wishlist without incurring legal trouble. However at 10% of the workforce, this may be a change of direction away from R&D and towards sitting on the falcon 9 and launching to LEO.

I would think SpaceX isn't like most large, stable companies as their primary goal is the colonization of Mars.

If you ask the PR department or look at the "About Us" section of any company, you'll find some fantastical story how they're improving humanity by earning millions doing whatever they do too.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#213

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

33a wrote: post #199

I'm just glad they did this before all those people were on mars.

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#214

Post by RachelF » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #62

stupidcar wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, maybe not. Consider it in terms of your own workplace: if you worked on a team of 10, and one person got laid off, would that seem so huge? I think the question is whether this round of layoffs is in response to an acute cash flow issue or just part of long-term financial prudency. They fact that they waited until after Christmas and are providing 8 weeks of pay and benefits makes me hopeful that it's the latt…

10% is huge by any measure.

Good ol' Roman army strategy of "Decimation", in 1 in 10. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#215

Post by sjburt » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #198

takeda wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting until after Christmas is indeed nice, but the 8 weeks is actually mandated by law. California WARN act applies to any site that has at least 70 employees and lays of at least 50. When this is triggered, the employer needs to provide at least 60 days notice.

WARN only applies to notice, not to severance pay. As far as I know, even in a mass layoff situation in CA like this, they are not required to provide any compensation. You could look at it as "hey we're going to fire you in 60 days per WARN, so just stop working now and we'll pay you for that time" but it's not quite the same - they could just notify them, make them work the 8 weeks and not provide any actual severa…

Likely they would rather send people home and pay them than risk theft or sabotage.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#216

Post by cryptonector » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #189

MisterOctober wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the warped logic of stack ranking still infects HR thought to this day, in some quarters anyway. It's one of those notions that sounds brilliant at first, but then when you think it all the way through, it reveals itself as patently bizarre and misguided. As noted, it creates a really unhealthy intra-team sabotage mindset as everybody competes to avoid being at the bottom of the stack. It puts managers in a horr…

Sounds like all of the issues could be solved by just not being committed to 10%, moving to 5% or 2.5% as your workforce gets stronger. And spread the responsibility of choosing who to fire beyond single individuals, so a team of people is responsible for figuring out who is not contributing.

That would help, but even so, stack ranking is social and cultural poison. You can do it one random year, but do it every year and watch cooperation within and between teams die out because it's a dog eat dog world you've built.

At what point will business schools please start teaching that stack ranking is a bad idea?

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#217

Post by kemitchell » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:17 AM UTC

kepano wrote: post #30

If you are affected by the layoffs in Los Angeles, working in software engineering (esp. on ERP and internal tools), UI/UX, or supply chain — my company, Lumi is hiring https://www.lumi.com/jobs

I'm a random lawyer who'd never heard of Lumi, and I support this message. Don't @ me.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#218

Post by kemitchell » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:18 AM UTC

roedog wrote: post #208

The SoCal aerospace job market is hot right now. The driver is multiple large program starts at multiple contractors who are competing for people. This should make it possible for everyone to land on their feet. (I've reached out to my former colleagues who left to join Space X) What's odd is why SpaceX is cutting staff with the new development underway on the larger rockets and the satellite business. I'm curious ab…

> I've reached out to my former colleagues who left to join Space X.

Good on ya.

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#219

Post by mellow-lake-day » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:19 AM UTC

swampthinker wrote: post #142

This isn't the first time SpaceX has done a 10% layoff round [1]. It seems like they do this at key inflection points where they're relatively sure they can make the next tech leap, and need to retool their workforce. [1] https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35254.0

Tesla also had one last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17295725

Re: SpaceX to lay off 10% of Workforce

#220

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #21

awake wrote: post #16

They've proven that they can make reusable rocket. In the early days they had around 6 launches per year requiring six separate rockets. Now they're hitting 20-25 launches per year and can carry an even larger payload on each launch. But they claim to be able to fly each rocket ten times before needing to make a new one. So you're going from 6 new rockets per year to 2 new rockets per year. Also rockets are not like…

> So you're going from 6 new rockets per year to 2 new rockets per year. Also rockets are not like your software programs that get rewritten every time a manager feels like it. You stick with what works. Last year, SpaceX had big plans for new rocket designs, a satellite constellation, and more. Unlike a ravioli canning plant, SpaceX has an option other than cutting down to maintnence staff once cash flow positive. I…

So, they have a team of people who is skilled at ramping up production of a (relatively) traditional rocket to volume.

So you've got, say, 3000 people on that team.

That project basically ends, and now you have A) a satellite design and production project, and B) a green field rocket design project.

What you're saying is that you know for sure that all 3000 of those people could have an immediate role on one of those two projects?