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Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

ruben.verborgh.org

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Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#121
post #44

This is a load of ... You can't descentralize the web for 2 reasons: DNS and SSL. And then you have the IP organisation, the name escapes me right now.

Both DNS and TLS PKI (nothing uses SSL) are decentralized by design.

DNS at the root level is not decentralized. .com, .io, .net etc are centralized and even owned by for-profit companies.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#122
post #44

This is a load of ... You can't descentralize the web for 2 reasons: DNS and SSL. And then you have the IP organisation, the name escapes me right now.

There are projects aiming to decentralize DNS and SSL as well. Handshake[1] decentralizes root DNS and enforces ownership through public-key cryptography. This gets rid of the need for Certificate Authorities which decentralizes both DNS and SSL in one go.

Disclaimer: building a registrar[2] for Handshake so we're pretty excited about it!

[1] https://handshake.org/ [2] https://namebase.io

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#124
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might possibly do that.

I love my Synology NAS server :) Though its not really simple enough for non-technical people to set up.

I also love my Synology DS-218+. I'm hosting my own Spotify (Airsonic [1]); music tagged to perfection with Beets [2]), an IRC bouncer because Matrix is still not ready, my own Netflix (Synology's Video Station [3]), and my own mailserver (Synology's MailPlus Server [4]). I've been giving out access to this pod to close friends. It's empowering and community-building. This is the kind of social network I desire: close-knit around the warm glow of a server.

It's really self-host heaven. I don't pay for Fastmail, Spotify, or video streaming anymore.

[1] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic

[2] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets

[3] https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station

[4] https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#125
post #79

It puzzles me that the linked data future is still discussed, as if we didn't already try it, and didn't already discover that developers dislike arcane RDF standards and the academic-rooted designers of the specifications have a terrible track record of solving real-world problems. And that now they're presenting linked data as some critical component of the decentralized web while skipping out on the debates that e…

I really, really sympathize with the goals here but when I read through these proposals a few months ago I literally facepalmed. They seem about as realistic as praying for some kind of deus ex machina. Ultimately I think there are technical solutions to making the decentralized web more attractive than the walled gardens, but at this point they will need to be ridiculously polished and shiny to even get a look, and…

The internet is already decentralized. Some billionaire can't do anything to fix the situation, at least not directly, because our draconian copyright and network access laws are the only reason that walled gardens are able to exist.

The internet doesn't really tolerate serious technical barriers stopping someone from automatically multiplexing the content from various social networks into a single read-write stream, for example. The issue is that when someone attempts to do that kind of thing, they get sued and they end up owing BigTechCo millions of dollars. [0]

An open internet is _not_ a technical issue. It's a legal one.

[0] https://www.eff.org/cases/facebook-v-power-ventures

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#126
post #11
post #8

I think the part ignored by so many is the need to decentralize the computers into the home. I'm not talking meshes or shared resources. For the majority of use cases, we don't need distributed storage, compute, etc. Just start making these self-hosted "servers", "data pods", etc as easy to install as desktop software and make it clear that they are inaccessible when the computer is off. People that aren't already wi…

Try Sandstorm. Home servers are a very difficult sell (see $500 Helm) compared to VMs running in a data center and IMO the privacy difference is mostly illusory.

Is sandstorm still around? I was a big fan of the idea and mission, but then I thought kentonv kind of wound it down when he joined Cloudflare.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technologically, yes. But centralization takes many shapes (as I explain in the article: https://ruben.verborgh.org/articles/redecentralizing-the-web... ). I encourage you to read the article, where you'll see that I'm arguing from a permissionless innovation perspective, not so much privacy.

We can already do this - but it's a bad idea. Plenty of services are API compatible with Amazon S3 (e.g. anyone can run their own S3 clone) so people can modify existing sites to use S3 with OAuth. Use OAuth to allow the user to delegate access to their S3 service link. No new protocols needed, no big innovations required. But for this to work on anything other than the most rudimentary data (media files, blog posts,…

OK, so nobody said decentralization is easier. There's been plenty of academic papers saying pretty much the same as you do. But we have to, not for technical reasons, but for ethical and social ones. So, we're starting to tackle it head on.

Your TV Guide is a good example of things that aren't hard. They don't change very quickly, so you can just use a cache. That's easy.

Finding the number of RTs, that's also easy, apart from it being an open world of course. When they RT, they notify you. And you want to display those RTs with your tweet? Just cache those who notified you.

Stable data access standard? That is Solid itself. And the data model, that's RDF.

There are ways that you can go about doing this stuff.

Finally, we're also getting some traction around this in academia, they've been hung up in stuff that isn't helpful for too long.

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#128
post #79

It puzzles me that the linked data future is still discussed, as if we didn't already try it, and didn't already discover that developers dislike arcane RDF standards and the academic-rooted designers of the specifications have a terrible track record of solving real-world problems. And that now they're presenting linked data as some critical component of the decentralized web while skipping out on the debates that e…

You're right, there are a lot of academics that like the idea of a semantic web, it rings true to a lot of scientific principles. There are also a lot of ideas and far fewer day-to-day applications. Science ticks a long a lot slower than startup culture, however, so it's not suprising that a) understanding of the issues comes slower, but also b) some "experiments" that would utilize semantic data have not yet been fully tested. Read a list of points that address "why the semantic web is dead", many of those points are precisely what science seeks, i.e. principles that promote a slow, and deep understanding of a domain of knowledge.

With open-science mandates coming from governments around the world researchers are looking for ways to share their data in meaningful ways. I can think of a significant amount of research that regularly consumes RDF, particularly in the fields of medical biology and genomics where it's used to annotate data. This is where I'd guess you'll see it take a foothold, for example medical diagnosis codes are notoriously disparate and there is a strong appreciation for what semantics could address. Unify, exchange, and consume medical diagnoses ... proffit.

Links etc. off the top of my head-

* GO - The gene ontology, used in hundreds of thousands of genomic anotations https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3944782/ * UBERON - https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-... * The second year of US2TS - http://us2ts.org/2019/posts/registration.html * OBO foundry - https://github.com/OBOFoundry/OBOFoundry.github.io

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#129
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Sandstorm. Home servers are a very difficult sell (see $500 Helm) compared to VMs running in a data center and IMO the privacy difference is mostly illusory.

Is sandstorm still around? I was a big fan of the idea and mission, but then I thought kentonv kind of wound it down when he joined Cloudflare.

Yeah unfortunately it's basically on life support now. For the first year after the company folded, I was still hacking on it frequently on weekends, but these days I mostly only push the monthly release to update dependencies. It's just that Cloudflare Workers is, well, successful, and it's... more fulfilling... to work on a successful project. :/

Re: Re-decentralizing the Web, for good this time

#130
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when mobile devices were rare, skype used p2p and was very popular and novel. But then an increasing percentage of nodes were mobile with limited power, limited bandwidth, and much less storage. Even being a member of a DHT (a nice way for distributed peers to keep track of each other) is a prohibitive from a battery life and bandwidth perspective for phones. So Microsoft moved skype to a centralized service and…

I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might possibly do that.

I'm not certain we need to make this accessible to "the next billion". We like to dress up these actions in virtue but the truth is we hook people up because it's a business. Facebook devastated our social fabric. I don't think it should have been invented. But here we are with its nuclear fallout all because some young douche thought it was a good idea.

If everyone owned a personal cloud box, security procedures would quickly fall off a cliff, those people are now the new botnet.

Maybe leave people alone, stop sticking our fingers in all the places they might stick to money. Let the geeks take care of their little tribe.

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