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Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

nytimes.com

221–230 of 271 posts

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Packers are nonprofit but there are other sports teams/organizations that have similar public offerings to raise funds/capital that are for profit entities.

You keep calling it a public offering, but the reality is, a public offering is selling parts of your company for cash, aka a stock, ownership has it's privileges, without those privileges, you aren't selling anything to the public, the public is giving you money in return for a piece of paper and a fuzzy good feeling inside. I don't invest to get a fuzzy good feeling inside. I donate for that. Donations are not inve…

I call it a public offering because it is a public offering ...according to the Packers and according to the SEC.

You’re really acting like an authority on “public offerings”, do you think you know more than the SEC about public offerings and they don’t know what one is? I understand your definition, it’s just not the legal definition is all.

What’s at odds is Packers “Stock” which isn’t “stock” in the common definition and understanding, but it’s still called stock, it’s just not a security or investment.

Have you even seen the Packers Public Offering Document(s) or subscription agreements? Because I’ve never seen a donation/charity issue “public offering documents” or require subscription agreements.

Edit:

>public offering is selling parts of your company for cash, aka a stock, ownership has it's privileges, without those privileges, you aren't selling anything to the public,

You should also really take a look at SEC enforcement actions against ICOs because almost none of them are “stock” nor carry privileges yet are considered public offerings.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#222
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zenefits was a highly touted workplace benefits startup that got into huge trouble when a Buzzfeed investigation (of all things), found that one of its execs had gamed a state insurance agent exam (I think that's what it was), so their staff could essentially cheat and obtain certifications faster. The exec in charge was fired, and a lot of their key staff had already jumped ship by then.

I think the pattern was worse than a few rogue employees, and it cost the CEO his job.

Indeed, the fake cert thing was foundational to their business model.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options are often not worth the paper they’re printed on. For pre-IPO, pre-acquisition, companies there’s no real market for those options. You may well be able to get better tax rates on them, but only if you can actually sell them. Compare that to RSUs which you can exchange the day they vest for actual cash, with a minimum of fuss. For perspective here I, and everyone I know who have worked for startups as an empl…

Paper? You don't even get paper stock certificates these days. It's all electronic. At a previous company, I exercised my stock options when I left. This cost me about $4K. Two years later, I got $12K back... not a bad return, but certainly not the "potential for early retirement" I was told when I joined.

Recently I was going through my father's papers and found a stock certificate for IBM, I think from the 60s or 70s. I think I'm going to frame it.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper? You don't even get paper stock certificates these days. It's all electronic. At a previous company, I exercised my stock options when I left. This cost me about $4K. Two years later, I got $12K back... not a bad return, but certainly not the "potential for early retirement" I was told when I joined.

it's just a colloquialism...

Sorry, I forgot the /s! Still, you used to actually get real paper stock when you exercised.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#225
What is Zebras Unite or any of the startups/venture firms mentioned in this article ... and why are any of them considered meaningful or impactful organizations?

The idea that startups are rejecting venture capital en masse on the basis of interviewing a hodge podge of random startups and micro VC's this journalist seems to be friends with is absurd.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#227
post #8

VCs win if enough of their bets make it big enough to offset the ones that go under. Naturally the big hits are few and the ones that fail are numerous. That means the big hits need to be huge and the failures need to have a certain cap. The latter also means you can't run a company for 10 years in slowmo until they get profitable. And the big hits need to be huge which means they need to take over a nice chunk of a…

The original story of getting rich off employee equity seems to go back to Netscape, but reading The New New Thing by Michael Lewis, I was struck by how abnormal that situation was. Jim Clark hated the VCs, identified as an engineer, seemed happy to share his winnings with everyone, and had the leverage to dictate VC terms. That story shaped tech for a while, e.g. Google bragged about how even their cooks got rich, b…

The non tech MBA's took over ;-(

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#229
Reasons why I'll probably never take traditional venture capital again:

- Costs are low enough I don't need them for much if anything.

- I'm unwilling to accept any form of liquidity preferences. Not under any circumstances. They don't get to further offload risk upon other owners like cowards, they have to ride the same risk train as every other owner. Liquidity preferences and the various types of abuses deployed through them are the greatest scams going in the VC world. In a typical start-up there is no greater way that VCs cheat the other owners.

- I don't believe in vesting the founders in cases where they've built the initial product over time (eg 6-12 months). I found the company, I build the product, I launch the product, the VC gets to ride my train, then they want me to vest my existing ownership. Nope. My shares are already fully vested, it's my company. These days I only allow VCs to pitch me, I never pitch them. If you build something that matters at all, the VCs seek you out anyway. In the US there's a hundred billion dollars in VC money every year desperately looking for ventures, make it beg for your attention.

- VCs are only allowed to have common shares. They ride in the same boat as everyone else. They get no choice in the matter.

- There is a lot more money chasing few decent start-ups. That equation is only going to continue to get worse in the favor of the founders. There are a lot of reasons for this, including the cost of starting up being low, and also the requirement for the Fed to keep interest rates permanently low so the US Government doesn't collapse (that will perpetually keep money sloshing around the system looking for returns, feeding bubbles, etc). Just ~4% on a soon-to-be $30 trillion in public debt would collapse the US Government, they can never allow that, which tells you how they're going to be forced to behave over time. There will be periods of ups and downs to this, however it's going to be higher ups and higher lows for loose capital over the near term, due to the Fed flooding the system with liquidity (at least for the next few decades, who knows beyond that).

These terms are non-negotiable. The VCs can take a hike if they don't like it. For practical purposes there's an unlimited supply of other capital and other VCs, especially if you have something good at all.

This is how all start-ups should deal with venture capitalists for the next 20 years or so, until something breaks with how the Fed is going to be forced to finance the US Govt with perma low rates. Capital is in a begging position during that time, use that fact to your advantage.

Re: Startups Rejecting Venture Capital

#230

Most heavily-VC funded companies die Young, even if they make it to IPO, like SGI (now reconstituted as NVidia). VCs don't care about companies, they want to make a quick buck and get out. Most successful startups are self funded for most of their life, e.g Microsoft, Dell, Google, Amazon.

Microsoft, Google and Amazon took vc. Seems Dell may not have, according to a brief glance at wikipedia

The parent made a point about self-funding. Microsoft was entirely self-funded out of operations, post the initial capital put in by Gates & Allen. It was wildly profitable, with extraordinary margins, at the point where it took a tiny bit of VC. They didn't take VC because they needed it to finance the business, they took it for the relationships they were trying to cultivate to lure talent.

The famous Fortune article about the IPO covers all of this:

http://fortune.com/2011/03/13/inside-the-deal-that-made-bill...

They also didn't IPO because they specifically needed the money from the IPO.

The parent comment carefully qualified their statement this way:

"Most successful startups are self funded for most of their life"

Emphasis on most of their life. Amazon was financed by VC for only about the first 2 1/2 years. Uber for example is nearly a decade old and still drinking from the VC tap; Quora is another example of that. Amazon's IPO was just under three years after the founding. Thereafter most of their business expansion was financed by operations in one form or another (including a bunch of debt they took on).

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