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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#171

Post by yters »

goodgoblin wrote: post #64

Regarding the horrible nature of some things in the world - pollution, the pain and suffering our lunch goes through, etc. - I think one of the reasons people don't always tell the truth is their own comfort with the way things are might be upended. I have a 5 year old who naturally is opposed to eating meat and who is shocked by the thought of killing something to eat it. I personally don't think I would eat somethi…

I think most of these "lies" are to avoid things that strongly attract our minds but do not cause them to produce. The things we encourage don't attract our minds immediately, but after time they do, and they cause our minds to be productive.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#172

Post by mattmaroon »

Is this the same article that you mentioned almost a year ago? I read it expecting more of an evolutionary psychology approach to the teenage sex issue.

I've read a good bit of literature about religion and its roots in EP, and why it's such a good meme. The "payload" is part of the spread mechanism.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#173

Post by mechanical_fish »

pchristensen wrote: post #108
brlewis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Grandma went to heaven" is not falsifiable. I'd prefer keeping this discussion focused on falsifiable lies. Let those of us who believe in the resurrection of Jesus, the coming of the semantic web, or other supernatural phenomena believe what we want to believe.

"Let those of us who believe in the resurrection of Jesus, the coming of the semantic web, or other supernatural phenomena believe what we want to believe." Bruce, you can't stay stuff like that while I'm at work - I've got people around me who can hear me laughing!

All I have at work is a parrot. And the parrot is now cackling with laughter.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#174

Post by sofal »

r7000 wrote: post #164
sofal wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about civility? That's kind of like respect. Do I "deserve" any civility? If it's a myth and a self-serving lie to think that you should show respect for other people's beliefs, count me as one of the self-serving liars.

If I were having a conversation with a friend I would prefer Prrometheus' comments to yours. If I were told in response to something I said: "Belief qua belief does not deserve respect", first of all I would think "Alright! Half-baked Latin! That justifies the price we paid for these coffees!" but also I would be happy to be given the chance to advance the conversation. I would have been given a choice either to expl…

I think you're right about that. I've made a few defensive comments in anticipation of and in reaction to antagonism. It's pretty weak of me to be defensive and reactionary in that way. I didn't intend it to insult or dismiss others' viewpoints, yet it did. Thanks for that comment.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#175

Post by astine »

graywh wrote: post #150
astine wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the semantic web, as it was for told in the Book of Revelations.

Funny, my Bible doesn't have that one--just something called "Revelation".

You must be using one of those new-fangled translations.

Tell me, how many Gospels do you have? if there's more than one, we have a problem.

;p

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#176

Post by mechanical_fish »

michael_nielsen wrote: post #6

"I used to think I wanted to know everything. Now I know I don't." I'd be interested to know what caused the change, and what types of knowledge you'd prefer not having.

Read Paul Fussell's Wartime. Or Eugene Sledge's With the Old Breed - At Peleliu and Okinawa. Then you'll know why I'm happy to study war from my armchair, despite the fact that I'll never really know what combat is like.

It's also good to not know what it feels like to be high on heroin or hooked on nicotine.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#177

Post by johnyzee »

pchristensen wrote: post #133
johnyzee wrote: post #30

I'm not sure that keeping kids innocent helps their learning. I've met many kids who have 'seen too much' by accepted standards and invariably they have been by far more emotionally mature than their peers, often enabling them to do well in terms of education. Unless there are other factors at play, such as adverse social conditions, I think kids can handle more reality than we tend to believe.

I think this plus pg's point about "cuteness" is key - kids are ready to be emotionally mature, but parents don't want to let them have the experiences required to gain that maturity.

Exactly. The key is what pg hinted at, that parent's like their kids to be cute and innocent, which is usually self-serving if we are completely honest about it.

However, pg seems to assert that the alternative is being jaded and cynical, which does not fit with the children I know who have, for example, witnessed death up close and personal.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#178

Post by yters »

Prrometheus wrote: post #127
sofal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense that some of the disagreements that I have with Paul Graham are deeply fundamental and have to do with the fabric and meaning of our existence. First of all, I'm a religious person. This I have seen immediately qualifies me for ridicule from some on a forum such as this, as believing in God is seen as the logical equivalent to believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. If you think I am totally deluded be…

>f you think I am totally deluded because of my beliefs, I would ask that you at least show respect for the fact that I am devoted to them and value them sincerely. Belief qua belief does not deserve respect. That is a self-serving myth told by believing people.

I agree that belief by itself does not deserve respect, and I upvoted you since your sentence addresses a common defense and should be highlighted.

But, no one has beliefs independent from any kind of cause or reason. So, just because someone says you should respect what they think because they believe it does not mean you should reject their belief due to bad justification.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#179

Post by bdr »

pg wrote: post #78
iamwil wrote: post #14

"And after having spent their whole lives doing things that arbitrary and believing things that are false, and being regarded as odd by "outsiders" on that account, the cognitive dissonance pushing children to regard themselves as Xes must be enormous. " Typo: I think there's suppose to be an "are" in "lives doing things that ARE arbitrary"

Thanks, fixed.

Is this intentional? "the anaesthesia was too too much for it"

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#180

Post by ambition »

nonrecursive wrote: post #101
greendestiny wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I've ever read a really good account of the hows and whys of swearing. It seems to me the idea that we're mistaken that swear words are taboo completely misses the fact that we defined these words as taboo to start with. I think restricting children from swearing is in part to give more power to swear words, because as adults we find it useful to have these powerful words. Teaching children that swe…

check out Steven Pinker's "Why We Curse", http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=246c0071-a9cd-46e2...

That was a great article.

It also touched on a commonly-told lie which pg's essay didn't mention: Eternal true love and monogamy in marriage.

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