Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France • Hacker News Board

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#171

Post by CalRobert » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 7:19 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #168

TomK32 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to stick to the speed limit. Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what time SUVs became popular in urban areas. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/f...

The point is, speed cameras are just a bad solution. At best, they're a passive aggressive way of exerting government control over citizens. At worst, they're a revenue-increasing mafia-protection-like tool. If you actually want to protect pedestrians, you build physical "traffic calming" obstacles like speed bumps or chicanes [1]. Switzerland is full of these, and they're very effective. There's really no good reaso…

That is indeed the best solution. I'd love to have them everywhere.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#172

Post by mulmen » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #101

atoav wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The revoking of a license also hurts poor people improportionally more. If you depend on your car and need it to get to your job, loosing the ability to drive will: A) make you loose your job B) go in debt to solve your mobility problem C) make you do stupid things like driving without license D) maybe you are lucky and there is cheap public transport or it is close enough for cycling For a rich person A to C are usu…

But if someone is putting others at danger, they shouldn't be treated with mercy just because they are poor. If you drive dangerously why does it matter that you need your car to feed your family? It doesn't and it shouldn't. Yes the consequences are worse for a poor person, but that's like saying that consequences of murder are worse for a poor person - if they go to prison then their family is now at risk because m…

But why should the poor be punished more than the rich? If you do that too much the poor put on yellow vests and start breaking things. It’s kind of a French tradition. At least this time they aren’t building guillotines.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#173

Post by adrianN » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #144

adrianN wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not fantastically expensive devices. We can have enough of them to protect children and idiots.

They are €43.000 s piece, not exactly cheap.

Seems to be on the same order as a traffic light, so not particularly expensive compared to other street infrastructure.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#174

Post by gambiting » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #172

gambiting wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if someone is putting others at danger, they shouldn't be treated with mercy just because they are poor. If you drive dangerously why does it matter that you need your car to feed your family? It doesn't and it shouldn't. Yes the consequences are worse for a poor person, but that's like saying that consequences of murder are worse for a poor person - if they go to prison then their family is now at risk because m…

But why should the poor be punished more than the rich? If you do that too much the poor put on yellow vests and start breaking things. It’s kind of a French tradition. At least this time they aren’t building guillotines.

>>But why should the poor be punished more than the rich?

I just disagree with this sentence, vehemently. If someone is driving a car in a dangerous manner, they should lose the right to drive regardless of how much they need it, and definitely regardless of how rich/poor they are. What's the appropriate punishment for a poor person in your opinion?

Like, I genuinely don't understand? A "rich" person should lose their licence for 12 months, but a poor person should only get away with a warning because they need a car to make money?

So if the very next day they get behind the wheel and kill someone, the court process will look like this

"Dear Honour, the accused was stopped for dangerous driving yesterday"

"ok, why were they still driving today then?"

"They are poor, so they were allowed to keep the licence"

Like, that's literal insanity. Driving is a right, not a privilege. If getting too many points means you can't get to your job and lose said job - I'm really sorry, but that's tough shit. I'd rather they didn't have a job than continue driving and be a danger to others.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#175

Post by chewz » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #35

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

They would make the roads safer if they weren't used so often as money machines. Do they stand at schools? Nope. They stand at the bottom of the hill at the exit of a town.

In Poland speed cameras had been used by various municipalities to extract revenue from passing cars. They had been hidden in some deliberately deceptive places. One municipality had been making 1/3 of their budget from the national road passing through. There had been private companies leasing cameras and servicing them in revenue-sharing schemes.

It had been forbidden by law few years ago. To make clear we still have speed cameras and perhaps more now but there is a process for deciding where they are and why...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#176

Post by mulmen » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:49 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #174

mulmen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why should the poor be punished more than the rich? If you do that too much the poor put on yellow vests and start breaking things. It’s kind of a French tradition. At least this time they aren’t building guillotines.

>>But why should the poor be punished more than the rich? I just disagree with this sentence, vehemently. If someone is driving a car in a dangerous manner, they should lose the right to drive regardless of how much they need it, and definitely regardless of how rich/poor they are. What's the appropriate punishment for a poor person in your opinion? Like, I genuinely don't understand? A "rich" person should lose thei…

Nobody is arguing that a poor person should be punished less severely for breaking the law.

Instead, the point I am trying to get across is how it feels to be a poor person that receives a more painful punishment relative to a privileged class and the kind of sentiment that would breed among the poorer class.

I am not French so I will not presume to know what the purpose of the Yellow Vest movement really is but it sounds to me like there are economically disadvantaged classes that are tired of being left out in the cold.

This is a matter of empathy, not lawmaking.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#177

Post by nojvek » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:56 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #168

TomK32 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to stick to the speed limit. Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what time SUVs became popular in urban areas. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/f...

The point is, speed cameras are just a bad solution. At best, they're a passive aggressive way of exerting government control over citizens. At worst, they're a revenue-increasing mafia-protection-like tool. If you actually want to protect pedestrians, you build physical "traffic calming" obstacles like speed bumps or chicanes [1]. Switzerland is full of these, and they're very effective. There's really no good reaso…

Yes speed bumps are way more effective than cameras.

Australia is full of them in sneaky places. It makes the driving experience quite stressful. The speed limits are sometimes ridiculously low and it’s like playing a game.

Speed bumps/breakers are way more effective at slowing cars down. If you don’t slow, you get a big fat jolt and damage your shocks.

I like driving in US much better.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#178

Post by nojvek » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

ammojamo wrote: post #123

jaziek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that not the way it works in the states? That's how it is in England. 3 points for a speeding offence. 12 points and you lose your license for 6 months. Points take 3 years to disappear from your license. You also get fined up to 75% of your weekly income, based on how much over the limit you were going, and there are some hard limits (100 mph?) which result in an instant loss of license. It seems sensible. I agre…

Not sure about the states but here in Australia it works basically as you have described - but there is also a very expensive (in my opinion) fine for each speeding offense, and this is not scaled according to income.

Australian fines are quite ridiculous. As a student, a speeding ticket of $700 meant two weeks of my pay gone.

They really do run a mafia extortion system there.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#179

Post by nojvek » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

_Microft wrote: post #66

TomK32 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.

My car has adaptive cruise control (go at X speed max, or follow car in front, which ever is slower).

This has resulted in a much stress-less driving experience.

It would be nice for the car GPS to automatically sync with the cruise control and set appropriate speeds.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#180

Post by NeedMoreTea » Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #160

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teen drives his hot hatch with 3 friends as passengers into lamp post by showing off his high speed handbrake turns. Accident figures peak. Council installs "safety" camera and lowers speed limit. Next year figures revert to mean. Council: "Aha! The lower limit and camera has cut accidents, we'll make it permanent". Net result: speed camera in middle of nowhere, on a dual carriageway, in isolated section of 40mph lim…

"Goodbye 85th percentile rule " - is this bad? It's a flawed non-rule. In many places (including Ireland, where I live) the same roads where people drive are where you walk your dog or ride a bike - with no footpath. The 85th percentile guideline doesn't help them. Remember that roads were for walking (by humans, horses, etc) and drivers turned up and stole them.

It's a flawed rule in built up areas, and in situations like minor roads without pavement near a village, where you'd expect to see pedestrians, dog walkers, hikers etc. Many of those spots would benefit from a camera on nearing village outskirts and 30mph limit. Yet they normally don't have one.

On dual carriageways, which is about the only location I ever feel annoyed by speed cameras, it's a fairly reasonable basis for setting limits. That's the situation you find reductions of limit, with associated speed camera, that are simply unexplainable from road conditions, and lack of sources of danger, risks such as built up areas etc.