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Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

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Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#131

Post by vkou »

lancesells wrote: post #130
vkou wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show me where I can buy thefounder's location data from Google. Which service is that, and how much do I need to pay? I can't find it at https://www.google.com/about/products/ > better said will target you with ads. The difference between selling location data, and selling ad targeting, is the difference between actively stalking someone, and sending unsolicited spam to "Current resident" at "Every address in…

> What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm. Do you see how people have weaponized social media through data? Google ads might not have been used in a nefarious way just yet but that's likely because it hasn't been thought of.

With ratings, on a scale of one to ten, how would you compare the individual harm of someone showing you a demographic-targeted ad[1], to someone having the real-time location data sufficient to start physically stalking you?

What about someone showing you an untargeted ad? Where would that fit in?

[1] Or, if you prefer, a remarketing ad, instead. I have very little patience for those.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#132

Post by rightbyte »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #32
rightbyte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they do. They let them target ads based on your location. It's the same thing as selling personal data. If someone clicks a location targeted ad the advertiser know the persons location. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/1722043?hl=en "Google Ads location targeting allows your ads to appear in the geographic locations that you choose: countries, areas within a country, a radius around a location , or l…

You're not going to be able to uniquely target someone in a radius, since the minimum is 1km (and I guess Google would artificially widen the radius to prevent uniquely identifying people in sparsely populated areas). You've also got to entice them to click, and that's notoriously difficult.I mean it might work occasionally but it's never going to be the shortest path to surveiling an individual. I would guess that ~…

Yes. I'm not saying it is as bad as selling the information verbatim to banksters to collect someone's debt.

However, it's still selling personal information to adbuyers. And, I don't think you can say "nobody is successfully using ads to determine ad clickers general location with a X mile radius".

This surveillance thing is getting out of hand and Google is annoyed that shady corporations tries to get ground which might bring new laws.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#133

Post by jklinger410 »

linsomniac wrote: post #129
jklinger410 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I also think we have no idea what hardware manufacturers do, or what is happening with the main cables that the 5 eyes is tapping into. Or what types of high level subpoenas and so-on have been served to Google, that they have acquiesced. It really is a ticking time bomb.

Part of my judgement about them being good stewards of the data is past reports of them encrypting all their in-flight data when they found evidence of NSA tapping of long-haul cables, and their using lawyers to push back on information requests that did not go through due process. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/11/googl...

I had not seen this article. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#134

Post by bduerst »

rightbyte wrote: post #127
bduerst wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Website owners already have your general location based on IP - they're not getting 'leaked' any information from location-based ad targeting that isn't already available to them when you visit the site.

Geo ip doesn't have that accuracy, right? Google use GPS. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453995?hl=en "Device location: Depending on a user's location settings, we may be able to use a precise location for advertising, based on one of these sources of location data: GPS: Accuracy varies depending on GPS signal and connection. Wi-Fi: Accuracy should be similar to the access range of a typical Wi-Fi rout…

Google doesn't share device GPS. Ad location targeting is at the country, state, and city level, or in increments as small as 3 sq. km.

Geo IP data is accurate ~85% at the city level and ~99% at the state level, meaning they're approximately the same.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#135

Post by rightbyte »

bduerst wrote: post #62
greglindahl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location information leaks from ad targeting. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it might bother other people. One way it leaks is that an advertiser generally knows what ad campaign a user clicked on. So if that ad campaign was only sent to a particular location, you know where the user was when they clicked on the ad.

Knowing the city that someone clicked your ad in because you targeted the ad in that city isn't 'leaking' location data. These advertiser websites know your city already by the act of you visiting their website.

It's not city accuracy. It's 1000 m nominal. If you could target a peak or small island and get better effective accuracy, I would not be surprised.

"You can choose one of the default radius settings or set a custom radius from a minimum of 1 km to a maximum of 1,000 km."

https://support.google.com/richmedia/answer/7279179?hl=en&re...

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#137

Post by greglindahl »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #77
greglindahl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location information leaks from ad targeting. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it might bother other people. One way it leaks is that an advertiser generally knows what ad campaign a user clicked on. So if that ad campaign was only sent to a particular location, you know where the user was when they clicked on the ad.

Website owners already know your rough geographic location via IP address. If it's that big of a concern for you, you should route 100% of your traffic through a VPN.

GeoIP is not that accurate in many situations, and note that a VPN does not protect you against this kind of targeted ad location leak.

I'm confused by your reference to me and my concerns. This isn't a discussion about me; I was making a point about leakage of location information.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#138

Post by max76 »

jankeymeulen wrote: post #111
dna_polymerase wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only ethical owner of my data is myself. Whatever Google says now is worthless the second growth stalls and shareholders want to see more.

Given the majority of the voting rights is still with the founders, they may have a bit less shortsighted outlook.

While this is currently true, there is no guarantee this will remain true in the future. What happens when a founder dies?

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#139

Post by format997 »

vanattab wrote: post #88

Ask HN: Is anyone here happy with Google Fi service? I ordered a Pixel 3 phone directly from Google Fi and signed up for service with Google Fi the end of December. When I ordered the phone it showed up as in stock and estimated I would get my phone by the 4th of January. On the 2nd I got an email saying that the phone shipping was delayed and I would receive an email when it ships. I have heard nothing from google s…

Sounds like your phone was so delayed because of a huge black friday promotion they ran that put their pixel stock a month or more behind back orders. My experience with them, outside of this one massive underestimate of how many phones they would sell because of the phenomenal deal that they ran, has been really good. Phones are normally in stock and ship almost immediately. And customer service is very responsive.

Re: Google Demanded T-Mobile, Sprint Not Sell Google Fi Customers' Location Data

#140

Post by format997 »

format997 wrote: post #139
vanattab wrote: post #88

Ask HN: Is anyone here happy with Google Fi service? I ordered a Pixel 3 phone directly from Google Fi and signed up for service with Google Fi the end of December. When I ordered the phone it showed up as in stock and estimated I would get my phone by the 4th of January. On the 2nd I got an email saying that the phone shipping was delayed and I would receive an email when it ships. I have heard nothing from google s…

Sounds like your phone was so delayed because of a huge black friday promotion they ran that put their pixel stock a month or more behind back orders. My experience with them, outside of this one massive underestimate of how many phones they would sell because of the phenomenal deal that they ran, has been really good. Phones are normally in stock and ship almost immediately. And customer service is very responsive.

As a side note, the phone that I snagged during that promotion just barely arrived a week ago. And I ordered it at the end of November. I think you just ran into some unlucky timing, at least in regards to the delays in shipments that you encountered.
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